BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012.


You are not logged in. Would you like to login or register?

Character Analysis » Mary – the subject of discussion » August 29, 2015 9:44 pm

lil
Replies: 5171

Go to post

With respect I disagree and defend my right to use the word fanatical and also others rights to be free to think and say whatever they like..give us controversy and entertainment and fun and wit and satire.. I encourage all  to be creative and interesting and amusing and please...please!..save us from nice and dull and a deadly bland...what kind of fascist hell would that be!

Character Analysis » Mary – the subject of discussion » August 29, 2015 5:51 pm

lil
Replies: 5171

Go to post

I don't see that really...look back at the thereads...it's all still there..there was a lot of enthusiam and excitement when we learnt Mary would be in 03 and AA would play her.
When TEH aired more Mary threads started , @most people loved her , but the -something about Mary -thread appeared and suspicions were aired , which grew during TSOT and obviously proved true in HLV.
Thats when dislike of Mary started..in a perfectly normal way..Mary was a professional assasin..had lied to and decieved John..and shot Sherlock..no one needs a 'need' to be appalled by that.
Whats wierd is the fanatical defence of Mary and crapola and inventive excuses to turn a highly trained liar and killer back into a fluffy bunny.
I think a lot of it ( irrational need to defend AA and Mary ) sprang from early sensationalised media rubbish about AA getting death threats from crazy fans..nonsense I found very hard to believe anyone ever took seriously.

Series Four Suggestions & Ideas » Called it! » August 28, 2015 11:20 pm

lil
Replies: 223

Go to post

Sherlocks dog Redbeard got put down because it bit someone..making sense of the Redbeard warning viz@Mary and Sherlock saying..he would be put down for shooting Magnussen.

Character Analysis » Mary – the subject of discussion » August 28, 2015 8:52 pm

lil
Replies: 5171

Go to post

It seemed to me Sherlock wanted to arrive just after Magnussen left and while Janine was still there to let him in and Mary delayed Magnussen.
Not really complicated.
To add a complex back story to HLV after what will be a three year hiatus. ?
The writers don't and won't do that...we have to go by what we saw in S03..creating imaginary back stories and scenarios for Mary in HLV would require a lot of back tracking on a decision the writers already made.

Character Analysis » Mary – the subject of discussion » August 28, 2015 7:30 pm

lil
Replies: 5171

Go to post

Very unlikely Mary wanted to know what info Magnussen had on her...unless she forgot her whole previous life ..she already knew.
Stealing any evidence does nothing to stop Magnussen at all..Magnussen is threatening to tell Mycroft and Sherlock and people looking for Mary..why would he even need proof..the former just need to think and the latter would obviously check.
This idea of stealing evidence to stop Magnussen or that she doesnt know things about her own life...assumes Mary is an idiot.
Likely what Mary wanted to know was..who told Magnussen about Mary...in case she needed to silence them too.

The idea that shooting Sherlock was easy and a trained response..is probably correct and probably what led Sherlock to deduce Mary was a professional killer..highly trained agent . @Doesn't shooting innocent witnesses easily..as if just another day at work...make Mary look more of a psycho than less...
Mary didn't shoot the bad guy , she shot Sherlock who was innocent ..thats not a good or defendable MO.

Character Analysis » Mary – the subject of discussion » August 26, 2015 8:58 pm

lil
Replies: 5171

Go to post

I know for modern clinical diagnosis and etc in real practice , terms such as sociopath and psycopath are no longer relevant , however for laymen and general audiences and particularly Moffat , they are.
The writers seem quite fascinated with the subject and use them a lot in their works and interviews, and they are laymen writing for laymen...I suppose.
So for Sherlock and a lot of modern fictions , the old fashioned but popular psycopath and sociopathic stereotypes and persona's are still very relevant and fascinating. 
Sureley what AA meant with what she said was obvious, and she wasn't hinting Mary needed an ASBO , but more that Mary had something of Norman Bates ( or a typical psyco killer ) to her character. 
It could of course been a joke , but her further tweet apologising if people were upset but that we all knew it anyway , seemed to confirm the psycopath opinion.

Character Analysis » Mary – the subject of discussion » August 26, 2015 11:20 am

lil
Replies: 5171

Go to post

Great vid.Ty for posting.

Amusing comments from AA she seems to have changed her tune.
I wonder if she has been looking more into Marys character for when she is on -bbc radio festival women of Sherlock programme with Lou B and Una S on the 27 Sept.It will be interesting to see what she says then.

Series Four Suggestions & Ideas » Called it! » August 23, 2015 1:16 pm

lil
Replies: 223

Go to post

If not in the SP then in S04..they will cover Sussex vampire..perhaps making reference to the theories back in the twenties and thirties etc that Holmes was Van Helsing in disguise.
Obviously this will give rise to speculation on not just Doyle and Wildes aquaintace but.. Doyle ,Wilde and Stokers decades of friendship...the homoeroticism in Dracula..and othrr interesting things.X

Informative article here...

https://muse.jhu.edu/journals/elh/summary/v061/61.2schaffer.html

and inspired by reading something welovethebeeker.tumblr.com wrote on silhouettes in SH and Dracula/Nosferatu

http://welovethebeekeeper.tumblr.com/post/127316440073/the-silhouette-some-pastiche-and-looking-for

General Sherlock Discussion » How are we all feeling about the show at the moment? » August 22, 2015 9:21 pm

lil
Replies: 31

Go to post

Yes.@mrs house ,naka, susie and harriet.
I see S01 and S02 as a young Sherlock and John relationship , and perhaps thats why they make a few mistakes with each other, but as the beginning of the Sherlock and John legendary relationship that is to come , the first six episodes are practically perfect.
S03 has been a bit like puberty with unexpected , unpleasant and uncharacteristic moments that I hope is just a bridge towards the other side.
At the end we really do get the adult , matured  , better man Sherlock  , and that gives me hope S04 will be back to perfection.
What concerns me most to be honest was John Watson in S03  , if everything is as presented by the end of HLV , I really don't know if I even like or consider him a worthy companion for Sherlock anymore...he needs a bit of fixing in S04 or I will likely abandon all episodes after TRF and pretend the fall hiatus never ended.

Character Analysis » Mary – the subject of discussion » August 4, 2015 8:05 pm

lil
Replies: 5171

Go to post

Does anyone think it's likely that Mary and/or Magnussen knew Sherlock was alive all along ?

Character Analysis » Mary – the subject of discussion » August 3, 2015 9:49 pm

lil
Replies: 5171

Go to post

Swanpride wrote:

Well, someone just mentioned her parents in a telegram...which never existed, so she knew something was amiss.

 

True and interesting , Mary could have been worried about her orphan lie being blown , and her real family.
Also the poppet nickname seems familiar and notable....

When then did Cam make himself known to Mary if not before the wedding?
No.Mary befriended Janine long before the actual wedding , Mary was making plans for Magnussen  a long time before the wedding telegram.

Character Analysis » Mary – the subject of discussion » August 2, 2015 3:56 pm

lil
Replies: 5171

Go to post

I agree that theres a lot of wibbly wobbly writing with the bonfire thing.
I think Cam had been in contact with Mary before the wedding though , it looked like she recognised his name and seemed worried not surprised when Sherlock read the telegram.
It kind of makes sense to me that Mary knew of Cams bonfire plot, (that according to cam didn't endanger John at all) , because thats likely what made Mary decide to kill Cam.
Maybe she had been or was willing to go along with Cams blackmail until he used John?

Character Analysis » Mary – the subject of discussion » August 1, 2015 11:58 pm

lil
Replies: 5171

Go to post

We know Cam set up the bonfire thing to test how much Sherlock cared for John.We know Mary had contact with  Cam before the wedding because of Marys reaction to the Cam telegram.
The idea that Mary was involved in the bonfire scenario , or had knowledge of it , comes from Mary taking the text messages to Sherlock.
That wasted time , Mary was fully able to decode them and thus knew where John was.Why didn't Mary go rescue John herself , why were the later messages addressed to Sherlock , why didn't Cam message Sherlock directly.
Thesis is , Cam told his puppet Mary to take the messages to Sherlock.

Wouldn't Cam also need to test how far Mary would go to keep her secret?

Mary may not have been behind the bonfire scenario but it does seem she was somehow involved , Cam planned very carefully , he was certain Sherlock would - get the message and go after John- so how was he sure that would happen by sending Mary messages?
Simple answer is he told Mary to take them to Sherlock.

Character Analysis » Mary – the subject of discussion » July 13, 2015 8:49 pm

lil
Replies: 5171

Go to post

Admittedly it would be easy to kill Sherlock in hospital   , but how on earth would she get away with it?Surely she didn't manage to get in and out of such a busy and highly observed place without being seen or caught on camera, not to mention that again John also would be a suspect and likely close by. I don't think anyone has suggested Mary had any intention of attempting to kill Sherlock there anyway.
The contention was Mary shot Sherlock to prevent him telling John about her double life etc.But that is not even mentioned until after Sherlock survives.Sherlock says her problem was 'the witness' to her crime.
Indicating she shot Sherlock to cover the crime and escape the scene..... if Mary thought Sherlock knew it was-not tell John- the hospital threat visit would not have been necessary at all.?
Actually in many ways the hospital threat isn't needed at all .Sherlock doesn't need to be told..don't tell my husband I shot you or that I was going to kill Magnussen...thats kinda lol isnt it?
Which makes the whole scene superfluous anyway.
So why did they include it.

Character Analysis » Mary – the subject of discussion » July 13, 2015 3:25 pm

lil
Replies: 5171

Go to post

I don't think killing Sherlock in the hospital and getting away with it is plausable, she puts herself into a very small time and suspect window.
Having Mary not kill Sherlock because of John , makes her not care about people other than herself and John.
Having her be the kind of assasin that doesn't automatically kill innocent witnesses makes her more sympathetic.
If they want to do that we might get a - she left a witness alive before scenario and thats why she had to go on the run.
People won't care much if she shot Magnussen bad guy types , they will if she has killed innocents.That I think is the line between grey/black for Mary.

Character Analysis » Mary – the subject of discussion » July 13, 2015 12:22 pm

lil
Replies: 5171

Go to post

Swanpride wrote:

Yeah, but Mary's intent wasn't to kill, it was to delay Sherlock long enough that she could talk to him later on. And if she intended to kill Magnussen...well, if she had done it, Sherlock wouldn't be forced to do it.

 
Not sure about this .The reason Sherlock gave was that Mary shot him because he was a witness to her attempt to kill Magnussen,  not to stop him telling John , but had a moment of sentimentality and so didn't take the immediate kill shot.Thats where 'shortsighted' came in , because once she realises Sherlock has survived it becomes obvious he will tell John, thus she threatens him and goes prepared to silence him permanently at Lauriston Gardens.
Having her shoot because she expects Sherlock to never tell makes her stupid and we know how smart she is.
Shortsighted...is a bit better...I think.
Either way it annoys me that they make her yet another woman who when faced with Sherlock throws all her training and smarts out the window and gets caught or beaten because of sentimentality. This is another reason I would prefer Mary had a reason -other than sentiment-to let Sherlock live.
But eh Moffat and women....

Sherlock Special: Theories, Suggestions & News » The special - the game is on (spoilers) » July 10, 2015 2:56 pm

lil
Replies: 2569

Go to post

I don't think theres a need to be picky or concerned about the word parody.
Didn't Gatiss quote recently about the Russian version that -immitaion was the greatest form of flattery.
It's fairly obvious that they are fans and love everything Sherlock Holmes but it's also fairly obvious how much they love to make fun of the many adaptations and various fadoms out there. As they did with TRF theories.
It's a very loving teasing mockery as is every parody(no homo) pastiche(7.% solution) or homage (Granada) of Sherlock ever done.

Character Analysis » My thoughts about Mary (all episodes) » July 10, 2015 1:51 pm

lil
Replies: 2031

Go to post

Yes . I get the impression from everyone involved in Sherlock that ultimately everything is supposed to be funny banter.These people are comedy writers and humour is the backbone even when they do drama and angst.
Mary being so much of a 'blank page' is deliberate , if they gave us reasons to sympathise or empathise with her , it breaks the humour .
I think some of the discussions and recent posts about S03 and Mary have become a bit Jerry Springer audience ,which is fantastically hilarious , and likely the writers intention. So nice to see a return of the witty satirist.

Additional Edit.
Apologies if OT or thread drift.Seems to be a lot of crossover discussions and its become difficult to keep things straight .

Character Analysis » My thoughts about Mary (all episodes) » July 10, 2015 12:49 pm

lil
Replies: 2031

Go to post

Easy banter is rather shallow.They all have that with other people like Greg and Hudders. Understanding? Mary understood exactly what Sherlocks death would do to John when she shot , unlike Sherlock who genuinely didn't realise the emotional impact his faked death would have on John.
Staying around was selfish , she put her own happiness above everyones safety when friends should protect each other and have each others back.
I didnt realise being pretty and funny and cute meant you could get away with murder and shooting anyone that got in the way of your lovelife.

Sherlock Special: Theories, Suggestions & News » The special - the game is on (spoilers) » July 9, 2015 11:22 pm

lil
Replies: 2569

Go to post

Like a parody of a parody...very lol.Not sure what to make of it but I know who to blame it on :-)
John ! is brilliant.

Board footera

 

Powered by Boardhost. Create a Free Forum