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Hi everyone
So - bit of a silly question for you: what are our current thoughts on Sherlock as a whole?
The reason I'm asking is that I have very mixed feelings about the show at present; however, it remains my 'main fandom' - I think I've become very immersed in fanon, Sherlock-wise and on rewatching His Last Vow tonight found myself taken aback by how grumpy, ungracious and unsynced John actually was, on watching the episode as a whole. As though fanon and canon know two completely different Johns. A stark reality from the soft, strong, caring, protective John we find him to be in fanon.
Anyway, I disgress. I'm a little worried I might have become a little obsessive about the show in the last year or two, but at the same time, it's lacking a warmth that the first two series had and I don't get the same level of pleasure I did before; I was rewatching HLV for research purposes more than anything. I know it was going to be hard after Sherlock's return, but I would have liked to have seen John and Sherlock come closer together, rather than drifting apart as they seemed to be; by series' end it was as if they weren't on the same page. I feel I need a break from this series, but I do want to give fanfiction a go. Maybe I should just leave it a while, though. I've been getting into writing for Doctor Who recently, so maybe I should focus on that; with Sherlock it just feels a bit sticky and awkward and I guess I'm sticking with the fics that give me that old, contented feeling, before the heartbreak that was Series 3 arrived.
Can someone give me an idea of how to walk away for a bit? I know, stupid question, but I feel I'm hanging on to something that's just not there.
TC x
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Hello!
Although being quite new in the fandom I think I can understand you obsession a bit. Things haven't turned out in series 3 as you might have wished. I've read a lot of comments recently that include a litlle disappointment when it comes to the relation between Sherlock and John in S3. Well, on the one hand I can understand this, but on the other hand I'm very glad of the character development we are presented in S3. It was necessary to show that Sherlock and John have moved on after Sherlock's 2 years' absence. They couldn't go on the same way after Sherlock's fall and faked death.
And I do think that Sherlock and John are closer now than they were before! Sherlock was John's best man, held a marvellous speech on the wedding, makes a vow to never ever leave John and Mary,(and even proves it by killing Magnussen!), gosh, they're closer than ever, although John's married now. So what makes you believe they are "drifting apart"?
Well, and if you sense that you're too entwined in the show/Fandom, I think the only way to cure yourself is to stay away fom everything that has to do with Sherlock COMPLETELY.
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TeaCub wrote:
Hi everyone
So - bit of a silly question for you: what are our current thoughts on Sherlock as a whole?
The reason I'm asking is that I have very mixed feelings about the show at present; however, it remains my 'main fandom' - I think I've become very immersed in fanon, Sherlock-wise and on rewatching His Last Vow tonight found myself taken aback by how grumpy, ungracious and unsynced John actually was, on watching the episode as a whole. As though fanon and canon know two completely different Johns. A stark reality from the soft, strong, caring, protective John we find him to be in fanon.
Anyway, I disgress. I'm a little worried I might have become a little obsessive about the show in the last year or two, but at the same time, it's lacking a warmth that the first two series had and I don't get the same level of pleasure I did before; I was rewatching HLV for research purposes more than anything. I know it was going to be hard after Sherlock's return, but I would have liked to have seen John and Sherlock come closer together, rather than drifting apart as they seemed to be; by series' end it was as if they weren't on the same page. I feel I need a break from this series, but I do want to give fanfiction a go. Maybe I should just leave it a while, though. I've been getting into writing for Doctor Who recently, so maybe I should focus on that; with Sherlock it just feels a bit sticky and awkward and I guess I'm sticking with the fics that give me that old, contented feeling, before the heartbreak that was Series 3 arrived.
Can someone give me an idea of how to walk away for a bit? I know, stupid question, but I feel I'm hanging on to something that's just not there.
TC x
gosh I feel EXACTLY the same. Word by word. And I'm afraid there isn't a way to 'consciously' walk away from it - you kind of have to busy yourself with other things, and distract yourself little by little, I guess...
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I love it with a white hot passion that burns with the light of a thousand suns.
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tonnaree wrote:
I love it with a white hot passion that burns with the light of a thousand suns.
I can't put it any better myself, so I will just quote this.
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Well, I would have liked some things to be different but it has not changed how I feel about the show. And I hope and trust that the relationship between Sherlock and John will be further developed and that they will return to 221B. This is the essence of Canon and will become the essence of the show again. So I cannot advise you in how to keep your distance simply because there is too much I love about the show. I really like Dr Who but I was never tempted to read or write fanfics about it. Hope you will find a way that works for you.
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SusiGo wrote:
Well, I would have liked some things to be different but it has not changed how I feel about the show. And I hope and trust that the relationship between Sherlock and John will be further developed and that they will return to 221B. This is the essence of Canon and will become the essence of the show again. So I cannot advise you in how to keep your distance simply because there is too much I love about the show. I really like Dr Who but I was never tempted to read or write fanfics about it. Hope you will find a way that works for you.
And I will just quote Susi, because this is pretty much how I feel about the show at the moment, too.
After S3 I definitely feel different about the show than after S2, but with 'different' I don't mean that it feels bad. Just different. I'm not sure how I'll feel about it if S4 ends on a similar note as S3 did though - but since we have no idea yet what might happen in S4, anything is possible.
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I still love and adore the show. It's just not falling for it head over heels anymore.
Series 3 didn't leave me as excited as the series before, and I feel the hiatus is too long (yes, I know, it always is). It's not like I'm loosing general interest, I'm pretty sure it will be back a 110percent as soon as the Special airs. But right now I'm nearly bored with Mary discussions, John-Sherlock discussions and the rest of it. I just feel everything that needed to be said about series 3 has been said one way or another, and sometimes I feel the fandom is stuck in an endless loop of repetition. But that is just me, it sure will feel different to others.
All this doesn't change my passon for the show itself, though. It's still the best I know. And as soon as the Special airs, it will be fine again, I'm sure.
Love doesn't vanish just because of a temporary low I'll just walk through it.
Not sure, but maybe that could work for you, too?
When I first watched Sherlock, I watched an episode every evening, for months (I know, I know). Now, I'm good if I watch them once a months. It's all fine (or so I hope).
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I think I kind of know what you mean, Whisky. While I obviously haven't read everything that people have said about series 3, I do feel sometimes like we've gone over everything. Even when I think of something new, it doesn't necessarily last very long. I have read some interesting analyses of earlier episodes as well, but it's not always with much regularity that I see something. But I agree, I think it's just because for now we're out of material and there's only so much we can do with what we've got. I agree that once we have seen the special we will have more to talk about, new things to get excited about.
As far as whether John is more bitter in the series than he can be in fanfiction and such, I suppose it's possible, but I think it could just be that fandom likes to focus on the warmer parts of John's character because those are admirable traits and what fans like about him. There is a lot of feel-good fanfiction afterall, so those would showcase John's warm side more than anything. Although I think the best fanfiction usually acknowledges how he and Sherlock can bicker as well as be warm towards each other. Also, I don't really think we can necessarily use HLV as an indicator for the series as a whole. Not because the quality of it isn't good like the rest of the series, but just because it's a different scenario than we see in some other episodes. John is in a high-stress situation in that episode. Sure, there's always an element of that in every episode since he and Sherlock get into danger from solving their cases, but it hits him very personally in that episode and he has to make a big decision. But I think that if you go to any episode, there will be warmth to John at some parts and he will be colder in other parts, and there will be varying degrees of each depending on which episode you are watching.
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Yitzock wrote:
As far as whether John is more bitter in the series than he can be in fanfiction and such, I suppose it's possible, but I think it could just be that fandom likes to focus on the warmer parts of John's character because those are admirable traits and what fans like about him. There is a lot of feel-good fanfiction afterall, so those would showcase John's warm side more than anything. Although I think the best fanfiction usually acknowledges how he and Sherlock can bicker as well as be warm towards each other. Also, I don't really think we can necessarily use HLV as an indicator for the series as a whole. Not because the quality of it isn't good like the rest of the series, but just because it's a different scenario than we see in some other episodes. John is in a high-stress situation in that episode. Sure, there's always an element of that in every episode since he and Sherlock get into danger from solving their cases, but it hits him very personally in that episode and he has to make a big decision. But I think that if you go to any episode, there will be warmth to John at some parts and he will be colder in other parts, and there will be varying degrees of each depending on which episode you are watching.
I agree whole-heartedly with this.
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I still love the show. Just like last time, I spend the hiatus with reading and writing fan fics. I johnlock even more than last time.
My feelings about S3:
I understand S3 as a dark place we have to go through to see the light at the end of S4. Or S5, taking into account that there is a plan for the next two seasons. There is a change in John's and Sherlock's relationship that I certainly wasn't hoping for (and there are somethings they did I still don't get, like forgiving Mary.) But I think that we need to see them drifting apart for a while so they can grow even closer than before during the next two series.
It's a bit like watching the second part of a trilogy.
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My obsession goes up and down, but I never lose my faith in the show. Every time I watch an episode, even for the 100th time and I'm mouthing the lines I find something new.
I am well and truly Sherlocked!
My fandom started with S3, but I do feel that whole series is different from the rest of the show, and sure a lot of things could have been different. But I love the show regardless.
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Fashionably late to the party but would like to add my two cents:
This is how I feel:
I fell in love with this show immediately. Brilliant script. Brilliant camera. Brilliant choice of canon stories. Brilliant twists added to them. And first and foremost: BRILLIANT LEADING CHARACTERS! And that is the EVERYTHING of this very adaptation. Martin and Benedict and how they interpret Sherlock and John and everything between them.
Currently I feel 1) that there's too much expectation and hype that cannot be satisfied. 2) especially in S3 screen writing, characterization (Mary) and logics had to bow to those expectations.
Currently I feel like I have been betrayed by someone I fell in love with. Sorry for being overdramatic. But if you have watched six episodes with stars and hearts in your eyes it's hard to just let go, because suddenly there's a new character more important than the leading characters.
For me it will very much depend on how Mary problem is solved and how Sherlock and John will be around each other.
So, enough ranting, I know this forum appreciates positive points of view also:
I liked the nice cinematography of Tsot. I liked CAM as villain, though there could have been more of him. I liked soft Sherlock (I know it's not a common opinion).
That's all from the top of my head.
Give me a S3 fix it!
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I might be wrong, but I have a feeling that those of us who didnt watch the show until after S3 have an easier time accepting it all than those who saw it before.
So even if I now love and defend most things and characters happening in S3, I might very well be one of those on the barricades when S4 airs. It's how these things go.
Edit: I just had a slight revelation. I had this idea just now:
In S1, Sherlock is the "bully" and John the underdog. In a way that it almost painful to watch.
In S2, they are on equal footing. They both know each other better and have learned to live with, and deal with, each other. There is more harmony and they enjoy each other's company more.
In S3, John is the "bully", and Sherlock is the underdog. In a way that is almost painful to watch.
Anyone else agree with this?
Last edited by Vhanja (August 20, 2015 10:31 pm)
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Vhanja wrote:
Edit: I just had a slight revelation. I had this idea just now:
In S1, Sherlock is the "bully" and John the underdog. In a way that it almost painful to watch.
In S2, they are on equal footing. They both know each other better and have learned to live with, and deal with, each other. There is more harmony and they enjoy each other's company more.
In S3, John is the "bully", and Sherlock is the underdog. In a way that is almost painful to watch.
Anyone else agree with this?
In S1 - personally, I see no bully and no underdog. Those two men just met and felt a deep sense of connection immediatelly, they had a great chemistry together. Still, when they started to live together, John had to cope with Sherlock´s excentric behaviour and Sherlock had to assure himself that he can rely on John, who corrected him that he´s his "colleague" when Sherlock declared him his friend, as if he wanted to distance himself from Sherlock. Both tested the other´s boundaries in various ways, but when the crisis happened, they stood by each other. They finally started to understand each other and their connection became firmer as a result.
In S2 we saw how they grew closer and closer together. At the beginning of TRF, their connection was probably the best - Sherlock relied on John´s opinion in day-to-day life and John, who stopped dating girlfriends by this time, was fiercely loyal to him.
In S3 we than had John so shaken by traumatic occurences and seeming betrayal from his best friend, that he developed almost paranoid suspicion of the other and unpleasant burts of anger. Sherlock meanwhile, returning from the mission that left him scarred and probably with a case of PTSD, tried to blend into his former life and patiently accepted John´s anger in an attempt to appease him by being mellower towards his friends and by doing some crazy tasks for John in his goodwill. But Sherlock´s goodwill and an effort to be humane turned on him in the nastiest way possible. Rather than bully - underdog, I see the issue of "distrust vs trust" and "good effort vs betrayal" here.
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I think your interpretation is well founded, nakahara, and I agree with it. I do not think that categories like "bully" and "underdog" are applicable to the relationship between Sherlock and John, especially not in this adaptation which makes John a fuller character than he has ever been before.
And in all these discussions about their difficult relationship I always try to remember that it was outward influences, mainly Moriarty and in some way also Magnussen and Mary, who shape and threaten their relationship. We can safely assume that without the fall their friendship would have continued and maybe developed into something else as well.
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Yes, Susi. And I think they need their opponents and crises to fully realise what they are for each other.
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Yes.@mrs house ,naka, susie and harriet.
I see S01 and S02 as a young Sherlock and John relationship , and perhaps thats why they make a few mistakes with each other, but as the beginning of the Sherlock and John legendary relationship that is to come , the first six episodes are practically perfect.
S03 has been a bit like puberty with unexpected , unpleasant and uncharacteristic moments that I hope is just a bridge towards the other side.
At the end we really do get the adult , matured , better man Sherlock , and that gives me hope S04 will be back to perfection.
What concerns me most to be honest was John Watson in S03 , if everything is as presented by the end of HLV , I really don't know if I even like or consider him a worthy companion for Sherlock anymore...he needs a bit of fixing in S04 or I will likely abandon all episodes after TRF and pretend the fall hiatus never ended.
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lil wrote:
What concerns me most to be honest was John Watson in S03 , if everything is as presented by the end of HLV , I really don't know if I even like or consider him a worthy companion for Sherlock anymore...he needs a bit of fixing in S04 or I will likely abandon all episodes after TRF and pretend the fall hiatus never ended.
Even if John´s behaviour was weird in HLV (but tbh, he faced a lot of strain and negative outward influences during the episode too), I cannot imagine Sherlock without him by his side. Let´s hope he will prove his loyalty and bravery again in S4 and regains his rightful place in the story.
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nakahara wrote:
Sherlock meanwhile, returning from the mission that left him scarred and probably with a case of PTSD
Any evidence for that???
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