The Empty Hearse » Has Mary killed Johnlock? » January 20, 2014 5:27 am |
For the first two seasons it seemed like Mofftis were doing everything possible to tease the Johnlock shippers and string them along.
Now it's like they're going out of their way to shoot us down, saying, "Ok, joke over. The boys are definitely hetero." And that's going to be more so in the next two episodes, I think.
I was surprised Sherlock didn't display more resentment of John's being engaged. I don't think that necessarily requires "sexual" Johnlock. I think it's a no-brainer that Sherlock would resent, and feel threatened by, John's getting a life that didn't include him. Even something like John moving out of Baker Street is a change Sherlock does not want. And even assuming John has forgiven him, being newly married is bound to be a priority that interferes with John's helping Sherlock.
There is some basis in canon for those feelings on Holmes' part, too. He says outright that he's not happy about Watson being engaged.
Sherlock may well be asexual...but the kind of person who only has one friend is bound to want that one friend to be the same way.
Back to the main question: most of their lines about each other before The Reunion teased Johnlockers. I can't remember them all but I most especially remember Sherlock's line that he had to get rid of the mustache because it makes John look old and "I don't want to be seen with an old man." The phrasing was rather suggestive of being a couple.
And John couldn't stop obsessing over Sherlock (at work) even while mad at him.
In the John Waton Blog entry for Empty Hearse, he says outright that Sherlocklives means johnwatsonlives.
I was surprised at Mary, too. Mary seemed to bond with Sherlock, and to make it her mission to get them back together. ("I'll talk him around?!")
She acts like Mrs. Hudson and others., almost treating them like a couple. She has to realize that John won't be the most attentive fiance / husband once he "makes up" with Sherlock. In canon, even when married to Mary, Watson would run to
The Empty Hearse » The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer?? » January 20, 2014 5:19 am |
Sherlock Holmes wrote:
OK. I honestly don't mind if that's how Sherlock really did it, because it was pretty close to my own theory (apart from I was never a fan of the rubber ball, haha).
I just always imagined that the true reveal would come from Sherlock telling John how he did it. And there was that moment, when John asked him as they were about to go out and face the press. There was like...five minutes left to spare, and I honestly thought Sherlock was about to tell him then.
You honed in here on the piece that bothered me: I assumed at the time this was the true explanation because 1) it was almost the end of the episode, and 2) I thought he was talking to John. And I assumed he would tell John the truth. (Silly me!)
And then at the end, didn't John ask Sherlock again how he did it?
I do see the point behind the "he wouldn't tell Anderson the truth," comment. I have said many times that he could get back at those who hated him in-universe by keeping them in the dark....thinking about supernatural possibilties...and maybe making them wonder a little if it was anything like History's Greatest Rise From the Dead...and John HAS to be wondering that on some level, too.
Reichenbach Theories » Do we STILL Not Know? » January 20, 2014 5:08 am |
Do we have reliable authority on which of the scenarios shown really happened? Or are they STILL tormenting us?
And, from Sherlock and John's conversation at the end, did he not really tell John? I thought that when the bomb was about to go off and they cut to the conversation with Anderson, THAT was going to be the real one, and that he was telling John.
The Empty Hearse » Reunion - do you think... » January 20, 2014 5:06 am |
The other thing that struck me was, what REALLY got to John was less that HE wasn't in on it, and more the fact that so many other people WERE. Because that implies that he is not the person Sherlock is closest to in the world. I think it would have been different if absolutely no one (or maybe just Mycroft) had known. Because then it's "Sherlock Holmes keeps even the persons closest to him in the dark," (which kind of paraphrases a quote from canon).
But this way, I think John was made to feel like Sherlock chose to be more "intimate" (in a sense, I can't think of a better word) with others than with him. Especially given that one of those others was Molly, who is/was in love with Sherlock, making her kind of a rival, whether John wants to admit it or not.
But I wonder if Sherlock might have sincerely believed that he gave John clues to figure it out? In the flashbacks to the roof scene, I realized that "it's a magic trick," was code for conveying the truth to John...to Moriarty and anyone listening who was Moriarty's ally it would sound like Sherlock was confessing he was a fraud. But to John, he was saying, "this suicide is all going to be a magic trick."
However, that does NOT get Sherlock off the hook, in my book: because he should have judged John's deductive abilities more accurately.
Reichenbach Theories » How does he get out of the Reichenback fall in the canon? » January 20, 2014 5:03 am |
Reichenbach Falls is an actual waterfall in Switzerland, at which Holmes and Moriarty battle, and Watson is led to believe they both go over.
The Empty Hearse » The bomb off-switch » January 20, 2014 5:00 am |
shylock wrote:
The whoe bomb thing was totaly over the top and unecessary imo.
Appart from the fact that there is no way such a device could have been created and installed totaly unnoticed, it portrayed Sherlock in a way I simply cannot believe he would act.
Then to have countdown timers on a remotely detonated bomb and an on/off switch....come on!!!!
I have another theory.......anybody remember Bobby Ewing in the Shower? Can't wait for series 4
The bomb is a device for John and Sherlock's makeup scene, which I wasn't crazy about.
I just can't get over the fact that Sherlock manipulates John into forgiving him BY MAKING JOHN THINK THEY ARE GOING TO DIE.
Doesn't that seem like, once John knows, it should be something MORE to hold against Sherlock... shouldn't he be madder still after that...and yet, after that, things seem to be better between them?
Also, I've read a lot of mystery fiction where two people with unresolved sexual tension snark, argue, and say inane things to dance around their issues, until some brush with death forces them to spill their true feelings. So that whole "making up when you have minutes to live" thing felt very cliche and deja vu to me. I know that people (including on this forum) have criticized the unrealism of Watson, in canon, forgiving Holmes so easily..but given that it WAS canon, I would have preferred this series stuck to that.
There is a certain irony about John's assumption that Sherlock can dismantle the bomb: he asked for the miracle of Sherlock not being dead. Once that came true, he was unwilling to believe there was ANY miracle Sherlock couldn't pull off.
You know something, Moriarty in his story wasn't too far off in portraying Sherlock's true nature. If there hadn't happened to be a Moriarty, I think Sherlock would have been capable of inventing one.
The Empty Hearse » True reason why he didn't tell John??? » January 20, 2014 4:52 am |
Mary Me wrote:
Yeah, well, don't forget that Sherlock and Mycroft are both sociopaths - making John believe Sherlock is dead was the easiest way for them. I'm a bit angry at Mycroft because now we know that Sherlock didn't jump to stop the snipers because it's obvious now that they weren't a real danger. It was all just for John. Making him believe that Sherlock was dead. Maybe it's likely that after the reunion Sherlock saw how hurtful that would have sounded to John and kept quiet. Okay, that's lame but I really have no idea.
Wait...did I miss that? (Everything happens so fast.) I did see Mycroft calling off the snipers...so Sherlock really wasn't saving John's life with his faked suicide?
Back to "telling or not telling,": I have often felt, even with canon, that Sherlock had another ulterior motive for faking his death: showing those who didn't like him (especially those law enforcement) that they needed him, at least to solove crimes. ("See how you like it when you don't have me to turn to when you're out of your depth!")
The Empty Hearse » Reunion - do you think... » January 20, 2014 4:49 am |
Did Mary recognize Sherlock a split second before John did?
The Hounds Of Baskerville » "Sorry there's no double room..." » January 19, 2014 7:59 pm |
hypergreenfrog wrote:
That is an interesting essay, and well written.
I agree with the writer that Irene's speech probably made John rethink his attitude a bit, maybe even stopped him getting annoyed at the frequent references to them being a couple.
Yet, regarding the observations about "Hounds", I agree with Kazza that they are quite far fetched:
- They didn't book ahead, so probably John just asked if they had any spare rooms at all. We know nothing that would suggest otherwise.
- Sherlock sent John the picture of the therapist, he wouldn't have done that if he knew that John had decided to give up dating for a while (and we can trust Sherlock would know about that, even if John had not actually told him).
I have never mentioned this anywhere, because it's not relevant at all, but I actually found that scene with the landlord of the inn slightly ridiculous. Here is a man who is in a gay relationship himself - of all people, he should know that even in the 21st century not every gay couple feels comfortable being addressed as such in public, and that quite a few people still take offense at being mistaken for being gay. Why would he boldly address two men walking into his inn (seperately) as a couple?
I general, I might agree, but...didn't Sherlock walk past them through the bar right before then? And didn't John kind of gaze after him dreamily? And maybe some people would interpret Sherlock's gaze as checking John out?
And some people have argued about whether "double room" refers to a room with one bed or two beds. So maybe he's apologizing for providing one bed instead of one room with two beds. So at first, John was saying it was ok that they had one bed!
Sherlock Poetry, Stories & Books » The Seven Percent Solution (SPOILERS) » January 19, 2014 7:44 pm |
For anyone who doesn't know, The Seven Percent Solution is a re-write of The Final Problem in which Moriary is NOT a criminal mastermind, and Holmes' insistence that he is is a delusion brought about by cocaine.
There is Johnlockian subtext here: it is implied that Holmes' cocaine use became worse when Watson moved out of Baker Street and into his marital home with Mary.
The first half involves Watson, Mary (who seems very intelligent), Mycroft (whom it was Mary's idea to ask for help), and Moriarty (who taught both Holmes in math at some time during their academic career!) all conspiring to get Holmes into treatment...and the treatment is provided by none other than Sigmund Freud.
And then they get involved an international intrigue.
At the end (and here is the spoiler), Holmes permits Freud to hypnotize him and a traumatic event in his past is revealed: his mother had a lover, and his father killed her and her lover.
In Holmes' version of the story he gives under hypnosis, all Moriarty did was break the news to Holmes; however, Watson deduces that Moriarty must have done something which gave Mycroft a "hold" over him so that Mycroft could ask Moriarty for the favor of helping get Holmes to Freud.
So the question (for those of you who've read it) is: Was Moriarty the lover? Did Holmes just pretend to himself that the lover died also?
Sherlock Poetry, Stories & Books » The Sherlockian » January 19, 2014 7:20 pm |
I started a new thread for this book under the "non-Sherlock books" forum. Ooops. I guess I didn't think it would go under the "pastiches" heading. I think of those as books with Holmes and Watson as characters.
I'll re-post my question, in The Sherlockian, the suffragists / feminists are mad at Doyle (with good reason, he is not their ally). But they ENCOURAGE the revival of Sherlock Holmes (it never seems to occur to them to boycott Holmes because they're offended by Doyle, as many modern activists would ). In fact, it is implied that these real-life crimes and the plight of the women are the reason Doyle brings Holmes back.
Holmes seems to stand for some principle or ideal that they want to "revive" but I'm not exactly sure what that was.
The "Doyle" parts of the book ARE based on the life of Doyle as it is known...but there IS one volume of the diary that was never found, as the author explains in an afterward.
Also (assuming this part is accurate), although Doyle opposes women's suffrage, he falls in love with a woman who is "unafraid to think and express herself as if she were a man"...which he admires her for.
Other Adaptations » Jeremy Brett's Sherlock Holmes » January 19, 2014 6:16 am |
Jacco111 wrote:
And yes, Brett was probably bisexual, I don't know who would be unwilling to acknowledge that?
Apparently on some forums that focus on him, the subject is taboo..ostensibly because it's "too personal," but the same people are often willing to discuss his illnesses and the relationships he had with women.
Other Adaptations » The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes » January 19, 2014 6:14 am |
Doesn't Holmes fend off a woman's advances by claiming to be in a relationship with Watson?
General Sherlock Discussion » Sherlocked Songs! ;D » January 19, 2014 1:42 am |
There was a country band in the '90s, known as Diamond Rio, whose songs were on a death-theme kick for a while, and as such, they work for post-Reichenbach (yes, with some Johnlock implied):
"You're Gone,"
"I Believe,"
"One More Day,"
And this one is not by Diamond Rio. Unfortunately, I think it could sum up John's relationship with Sherlock, and perhaps Molly's as well.
And this one, I suppose they both feel that way about each other, but it's John who believes Sherlock can move mountains:
For the Hiatus years (and may apply to Molly, too):
These might be appropriate reunion songs:
"Here You Come Again"
"Heart Over Mind,"
I realize the references to a guy who romances multiple women don't necessarily work for Sherlock, but that "You can always manipulate me even though I know you well, and I can't say no to you," kind of works.
"After All." I was reminded of the line "We tried it on our own," during the scene where John is trying to do his normal doctor work, and you can tell he SO wants to break down and go get with Sherlock.
"I'd Rather" (The "someone else" could be either Mary or Molly.)
And then of course, the "rise from the dead," theme. This song would probably be from Anderson's point of view: (It refers to the singer having done something that was a betrayal or a denial of the relat
Latest News » Sherlock could be back in time for Christmas » January 19, 2014 1:06 am |
SilverMoonDragonB wrote:
tonnaree wrote:
In the name of all that is holy please don't tease us!!
Oh but we know it's what they do...
From what I have read in the articles about Season 3, it took this long because of Martin and Benedict's schedules...they weren't JUST doing it to tease it.
Benedict's Press » British GQ. January » January 18, 2014 8:56 pm |
SolarSystem wrote:
They can't be serious about that second pic up there, can they...?
Which one are you saying they can't be serious about?
General Sherlock Discussion » Downloading Season 3 » January 18, 2014 2:13 am |
Molly wrote:
I this what US itunes offers? or did you find other videos? I'm asking because I don't have an itunes account and I'm a little lost, but if that's what you can buy from the US then you are right, those are not the episodes, they are documentaries about the series, the actual episodes are longer than that, you can see it in the UK itunes store.
Maybe you can buy them from the UK store but I'm afraid TeeJay is right, usually digital content has geographic restrictions, which means you won't be able to buy the episodes via itunes until they appear in the US store.
Yes, that is what I found on itunes too. I'm hoping it changes (and the episodes are added) after Sunday.
Benedict's Press » This article will BLOW the MINDS of BC fans... » January 18, 2014 2:10 am |
- this is where it is quoted that BBC originally thought Benedict wasn't sexy enough to be Sherlock
- Benedict has almost died more times than Sherlock!
Benedict's Press » Benedict Was Almost Afraid to Play Sherlock... » January 18, 2014 2:09 am |
I'll post the article where that was talked about.
Latest News » Sherlock could be back in time for Christmas » January 17, 2014 10:15 pm |
Someone pointed out to me that Sherlockians have always been "the fandom that waited." Think what DOYLE's readers had to endure between FINA and EMPT!