Character Analysis » Sherlock's relationship with Mycroft » March 30, 2013 7:09 pm |
yeah but we need an explaination of why they are called this in the 21st c.
And I think there is a rich seam here to be mined. I am really liking this idea of the Holmes tribe piling into a Morris Minor and touring the seaside resorts with a stack of suitcases on the roofrack.
Character Analysis » Sherlock's relationship with Mycroft » March 30, 2013 6:54 pm |
I'm not up on my royals but I'm pretty sure we also have Williams and Henrys and James and Peters. Whats unusual is to give a boy an outlandish name. Sherlock and Mycroft are more in the Beckham style I think. I can totally see Sherlock and Mycroft as celebrity baby names. They are not old money names.
Perhaps they are the children of someone along the lines of Paul Daniels and Debbie McGee and spent a highly resentful childhood touring the seaside resorts of Britain?
Actually I like this theory. It would explain a lot, for example why they are both so freaking good at cold reading and don't really talk about their parents. Mycroft angling at some level of normality. And also-its a small thing, but the phrase "I'll be mother" is not really an uber-rich Harrow-and-Eton phrase.
Reichenbach Theories » what happened was simple » March 30, 2013 6:34 pm |
"I'd rather match them with Mycroft's secret service."
At least one is wearing a Mycroft secret service ring. So-yeah, that's what they are, I reckon. Also gets Mycroft off the hook nicely.
Reichenbach Theories » we don't see the pavement where Sherlock lands.... » March 30, 2013 6:29 pm |
"Who says, that the truck was standing on the street during the fall? We don´t see the groung during the fall, we have the last cut, the last metres more or less, then another cut, and only after that we see the whole situation, with Sherlock on the pavement and the truck driving away. Theoretically it could have been on the pavement during the fall."
ok here is the main reason I disagree. Take a look at the fall again. He falls from the Barts side, not the truck/rectangle side.
The other reason is actually more a practical one. If Sherlock fell into a strategic laundry truck with open sides, the snipers would see. That's why I think the role of the laundry truck is to conceal another object he is falling onto, such as maybe a stack of laundry about to be added to the truck.
Character Analysis » Sherlock's relationship with Mycroft » March 30, 2013 3:09 pm |
Read a good interview a while back though can't remember who with-one of the writers I think.. The gist of it was that they thought the Holmes brothers had actually had a normalish, happy childhood (which is good because I am dreading a father-killed-mother-having-affair cliche a la 7 % solution and so on). Adding to that, I just wonder if the real issue here is that they are both so ridiculously overblown and dramatic and so you can see a fight over Smurfs turning into a six month stand off.
I would love to discover that there is nothing odd in their upbringing, that we don't see their parents because they are just, say, abroad (canon has it that Sherlock's mother is possibly French) and that there is no basis or secret angst to this drama. I'm guessing that they are ridiculously rich but even that might not be the case-they are obviously both going to have been able to get public school scholarships. Also their names-I think they tell against it a bit. In Britain, very rich people normally give their kids normal ish names, outlandish names to me would not suggest old money.
One thing I felt worked in support of this-we know that Moriaty has his life story but there seems to be nothing outstandingly unusual in it, the headline isn't "Fake Genius Mother ran off with Maths Teacher!" (7% solution).
I really do like the idea that the problem really was an escalating rivalry over incredibly petty things.
I also
A Scandal In Belgravia » Irene's nude scene Sherlock & John » March 30, 2013 2:54 pm |
Ok just one small and final point
One thing I am seeing again and again in discussion of the relationship between John and Sherlock is what seems to me a false dichotomy. John can't be gay because he is attracted to women, especially Mary but others also. Sherlock can't be gay because he is attracted (I thnk) to Irene. Etc. And then, from that, these guys cannot be attracted to each other because they are not gay.
I think this falls down within the show itself. There is a fascinating scene between Irene and John. The "I'm not actually gay." "Well I am" scene. Which to me is Irene saying something much wider to John, more like, "I've had to think again. Turns out I'm a bit more complex than I thought. How about you?". Irene identifies as gay and there is a strong implication that she's in a relationship on some level with (remind me?) Kate(?). And yet she falls for Sherlock. And I think that that is pretty near John's last serious protest against the idea that they are a couple-in Hounds he just kind of gives up when its implied. Irene ironically provides a model for him as someone who has shifted in their understanding of themself.
Or to put it more simply, bisexuality exists as a real phenonemon, a normal option even for a lot of people, and that is what I think we are actuallly seeing portrayed, a character struggling to reconcile those elements of himself which exist on some level and which do not always have to be about sex. It just seems to me that John really can love Sherlock and Mary, and in some ways I find it surprising that in this century this is even called into question.
(and I cannot begin to say how conflicted I am about the SiB episode with its lipstick-lesbian- falling-for-a-man trope. Wow its like we are back in 1990. I think they really owe us Harry Watson as played by Catherine Tate to make up for it)
Series Three News » Has the weather affected filming? » March 30, 2013 12:36 pm |
well all I can say is that in Cardiff we know how to layer our thermals.
Reichenbach Theories » Go on then...what are your theories? » March 30, 2013 12:22 pm |
Just noticed that one of the fake doctors is wearing a Mycroft ring-like Mycroft and Anthea wear, right hand. So I think Mycroft is clearly in on it.
How has the show made clear that Sherlock and Moriaty are the same? I think thats a really interesting idea and one that crops up a lot in Holmesian fanfic, like The Last Sherlock Holmes story or the Jeremy Brett/Edward Hardwicke play. But, I dunno, unless its all Baskerville drugs they do look like two separate people to me. Its interesting! Elaborate!
A Scandal In Belgravia » Irene's nude scene Sherlock & John » March 30, 2013 12:11 pm |
I am actually getting a little confused at how this conversation is going, there seem to be huge jumps here.
My only problem re virginity or assexuality is when it is used as a way to deny the existance of same sex feelings or desires. When the original stories were written it was far more acceptable (and amazingly, people seemed to have believed it more likely ) for a man to be uninterested in sex than for him to just prefer other men and be being discreet about it. I also find it interesting that people - not necessarily on here but generally- seem to sigh over everything becoming "about sex" when it is revealed that an intense, exclusive friendship has sexual undertones - if it is two men or two women but often it will be seen as a natural progression if its a man and a woman. No one seems to be saying "oh goodness why does even a trip to the corner shop have to be about sex for Mrs Hudson.". No one seems that reluctant to ship Anthea and Mycroft, certainly not on the grounds that its then "all about sex".
I think Mycroft is obviously having a go at Sherlock in that scene. Let us not forget that the scene opened with a dig at Mycroft's sexuality-literally the only even slightly perjoritive one in the whole show. And that Sherlock needs to be established as chronically sexually inexperienced in a SiB because that's kind of the point of the episode, he's played so well because its one area where he is extremely naive. John, not to mention Mrs Hudson sees through Irene better than him (the way she takes down the form of the text message alert). It would be logical to me from a purely storytelling perspective that the tale ended with that particular relationship being consumated after he saves Irene Adler in Karachi. I think you could also argue that he is far less intimidated later by women and sex-eg Kitty Riley.
I dunno, I don't think virginity is funny or odd, no. Its a personal choice I guess. I just don't think that S
Reichenbach Theories » One of the fake doctors is wearing a Mycroft ring! » March 30, 2013 11:43 am |
The woman who holds John back from Sherlock’s body has a Mycroft ring
By which I mean a plain gold, wedding-like ring worn on the right hand. Both Mycroft and Anthea wear them, so my assumption is that it suggests some connection between them.
I can’t work out how to upload images from a dvd to here and most youtube compilations seem to cut this scene but if you have the dvd its at and around 1.22.19, the hand, which has a silver watch on it, moves into and out of shot, kind of giving John a moment to touch Sherlock’s hand then gently prising it away. It is very clear. I am guessing it belongs to the grey haired doctor who seems to be comforting John-it looks to be a woman’s hand and watch-but it might be from the man behind.
Well I think that suggests Mycroft’s involvment, personally, and tentatively gets him off the hook as far as I am concerned.
Reichenbach Theories » we don't see the pavement where Sherlock lands.... » March 30, 2013 11:18 am |
problem with lorry is twofold from what I can see
First, the pavement is just too wide for him to fall there. Its a 7 m wide pavement iirc-not just irl but onscreen its wide enough for half Barts to come out to "help" so he'd have needed to really leap and he doesn't, he falls.
Second, I think more importantly, he doesn't fall into the final scene from the truck side but from the side of Barts.
I think the better theory is that someone used by the laundry truck, like a laundry bin, cushioned the fall.
A Scandal In Belgravia » Irene's nude scene Sherlock & John » March 29, 2013 8:17 pm |
"There is a running Sherlock joke about Sherlock being a couple. The joke being on the stupid characters, the clever viewers know they are not.".
What, stupid people like Mrs Hudson and the two gay men who run the pub in HotB? Like Mycroft Holmes and, tbh, Jim Moriaty? Irene Adler? Actually there seems to be a direct correlation between how well people can read them and/ or what experience they have of same-sex attraction and
percieving something there.
"Sherlock is described as a virgin and hasn't been seen in any relationships, indeed has rejected at least one advance.
John has had a series of girlfriends and could possibly get married."
Well aside from the fact that I'd say that it is strongly hinted that Sherlock is no longer a virgin, you know, this is exactly the point I am making. People don't fit into boxes. Someone like John who sees himself as straight can still find himself attracted to a man and think "what the-?". And even if thats a non-sexual attraction-whcih it probably is-there's no code, no place for that to fit in. Its not friendship really, and its not necessarily sexual. But what it is is one important part of any marriage. Like I say I think this is really about John having feelings that make no sense given his understanding of the world.
oh and "emphasise doggging?" how did I do that? I put it in brackets at the end! Its pretty clear to me that they put that in, entirely gratuitiously, because John had gone looking for a hound. And what did he get? Dogging. I dunno, I think that's pretty clever. There's certainly no other reason for that scene to be in there.
A dominatrix isn;t just about power. Its about people getting off on power. Its about, I'd say, a form of sex that isn't necessarily one i want to introduce to my pre-teen kids. Which is fine, by the way, Sherlock isn't a family show, it does have a lot of sexual references
I'm going to make my point a final time though. I
A Scandal In Belgravia » Irene's nude scene Sherlock & John » March 29, 2013 8:11 pm |
ah but there is Word of God against Sherlock's asexuality. The writers have said he is not asexual but resisting temptation. But as I say, I find John's sexuality more interesting here and certainly more helpful from the point of view of giving kids something to work with.
And as to sex scenes-they don't bother me either way, and I do appreciate the even handed nature of Sherlock as regards what they show of gay and straight relationships. But I would not say its a show that avoids sex. What about most of A Scandal in Belgravia? Its about a dominatrix! My ten year old loves Sherlock Holmes and loves the little he's seen of Sherlock but no way on this earth would I let him watch that one. Even HotB has a dogging scene (dogging, geddit?)
A Scandal In Belgravia » Irene's nude scene Sherlock & John » March 29, 2013 7:58 pm |
This one does really seem to touch a nerve. Like I say, I'm not a shipper, I have zero interest in fanfic or Johnlock or the rest. But its fairly clear to me what is being, at the least, hinted at, and I appreciate that this is considered as a possibility. That even John's extremely defensive (at times) response is never rooted in homophobia and that he, at least, has a gay sibling who he accepts. The simple fact that the only words ever used are "gay" or "lesbian", nothing even borderline critical. I know there is a generation of kids that this will make a huge difference to and you know what? The show's writers will too, I am sure of that. They've handled this whole situation in an amazing sensitive and positive way.
I think there can be a desire for things in neat boxes.. But that's not how the world is. And Sherlock, like other reboots - Dr Who, for example-is emotionally literate enough to recognise this. I'm personally glad, for the sake of my kids, that we have such complex shows to show that human sexuality is a continuum not a binary thing. And that struggling with your sexuality, questioning it, is actually normal.
A Scandal In Belgravia » Irene's nude scene Sherlock & John » March 29, 2013 7:44 pm |
yes
but "bromance" isn't really something that actually exists in real life. Not IME anyway. In many years on this planet, having known many, many different kinds of people, I have never known a bromance. I cannot think of a single pair of male friends I know who are each other's world like this, who would write a suicide note to each other or reach out hands to touch before death. "bromance", imo, is a word invented to circumvent what's actually happening, which is that sexuality isn't fixed for any of us and that gay relationships don't necessitate sex any more than straight ones do. You can and do have long term, chaste, same sex relationships where there is a lot of love.
I'm so not a shipper. But I do struggle a bit here because to me, this is obviously a relationship with a lot of things in common with a same sex relationship. And part of me thinks, why the protest?
A Scandal In Belgravia » Irene's nude scene Sherlock & John » March 29, 2013 7:28 pm |
Well I think the whole thing with John is that we don't know. Pretty much everything said in relation to his sexuality is almost zen, nothing is ever said clearly, things can always be taken two ways and my sense is that that is because he is working through it, probably a lot more than he realises, certainly more than he is willing to admit. The writers convey this unsettled sense very well, of "what the hell are these feelings, I'm a normal guy" that are pretty familiar, I'd say, to a lot of people who have grown up not-straight at least pre mass-internet and under our Section 28 (so anyone over about 25)
So when she says "he" (John) "knows exactly where to look,", it is meant to be ambiguous. She says at one point that Moriaty has told her how to play the Holmes brothers-presumably he also told her how to play John. But she plays people by knowing them well and knowing their weaknesses. I don't get the impression that she ever lies-therein is her genius
My own sense is that John's actual problem more than anything is that the feelings he has for Sherlock, as a fundementally straight man, are actually not ones he has any experience of, that fit into anything he understands, that is reflected in his reality. So John's feelings may very well not be sexual but without an context for him to pin them to they are hard for him to understand. I know not everyone agrees, but I'd consider strong same-sex friendship-I mean to the point where your world ends because your best friend dies, where the last thing you want to look at is each other...well that might not be sexual, but, that is a freaking strong feeling there. Yk, not all gay relationships are about sex, just like not all straight relationships are all about the sex, and I think this is part of the ambiguity, that you often get in media representations of gay relationships, that, unlike straight relationships to be gay you have to have
Character Analysis » Sherlock's relationship with Mycroft » March 29, 2013 6:41 pm |
I think my favourite scene in the whole entire show has to be them bickering in Buckingham palace. Because honestly, anyone with a sibling can recognise that one, the fact that however much of a professional face you can put on for others your siblings can still reduce you to your nine year old self at the drop of a hat.
And Mycroft is literally the only person who Sherlock cannot ever outsmart. Ever. Unless I'm mistaken there is not one single instance (in canon or on the show) where Sherlock actually gets the upper hand. When Irene says something like "not you junior, you're done,", that just about sums it up.
Series Three News » The game is on again (OFFICIAL NEWS ONLY PLEASE) » March 29, 2013 6:23 pm |
Can there ever be a good reason for a mustache? The only one I can personally think of is that you are the Lorax and I don't think this applies here. (I mean I know the Lorax is short and blond but...I don't think that's what is going on)
Is it really canon that Watson has a mustache? I think it is in one story, maybe, Charles Augustus Milverton? But we all make mistakes.
Perhaps this is the real reason for Sherlock's absence. I'm not sure what I woudl do if a good friend grew a moustache either.
Series Three Suggestions & Ideas » How will John react when he finds out Sherlock isn't dead? » March 29, 2013 6:16 pm |
you know what-my partner and I were rewatching the RF last night and we were thinking...
they almost certainly won't open telling us what has happened. If we learn what has happened it probably won't be til the end of the first episode.
they might not actually spell out what has happened for a while, perhaps til the second or third episode of the series. I mean convention says they have to tell us eventually but...I bet they tease this one out for as long as they can.
My god imagine that.
ha well it does no harm at all to the Sherlock ratings...which means more serieses for us so no complaints :-)
Series Three Suggestions & Ideas » How will John react when he finds out Sherlock isn't dead? » March 29, 2013 5:50 pm |
ah I am avoiding spoliers as far as I can! Speculating is more fun and I tell you what, the producers of Sherlock know how to play their game, they are going to avoid giving away stuff as far as possible through filming and suchlike I am sure. I will not be sure of anything til I see it on the show :-)
moran does need to crop up though really, though my smartest money is on him being the sniper with a gun trained at john (the one who looks incredibly like Sherlock...kind of interesting since Jim and John look a tiny bit alike. Well they are short.)#
I do think John needs to be married really, personally. I'm not a shipper but I'm also not anti-shipping-I just want to see the characters develop well, whatever that means.