A Study In Pink » The Pilot » February 15, 2013 12:15 am |
miriel68 wrote:
In the final version it takes Sherlock a bit too long to realize that the killer is a cabby driver - in the pilot he nailed it very nicely, while in the final version he must have it literally thrown at him,
I agree completely! Didn't that point make it into my post? Oops. I remember thinking the first time I saw SiP that it seemed to be taking an awful long time for Sherlock to cotton on. I figured that was done to help viewers who needed the extra time to figure it out. Heck I knew it was a cabbie when Sherlock and John were walking to the diner and Sherlock was asking John who is there but never seen, who do we trust without knowing them at all, and who hunts in a crowd.
I am not saying that I am super smart or anything, I just have a good sense for that kind of story telling. That's all, so please no one take offense for none is intended.
A Study In Pink » The Pilot » February 14, 2013 6:09 pm |
I have just seen the unaired pilot and wanted to get my thoughts out.
The overall look, sound and feel of the pilot - My daughter who saw bits of it as she passed by me said that it didn't look as good and sounded weird. I explained to her that this was never aired and that it was the equivalent of a first draft. There was no post-production work done on it to fix errant lighting, or filter sounds, or pick the perfect background sound effects etc... I'm no expert in that field, but I do know that post-production takes almost as long as the actual shooting. The opening credits had a temporary feel to it. If the BBC had wanted to take the pilot as it was I am pretty sure that we may well have ended up with the more composed opening sequence we see in the series.
The overall feel of the pilot was darker and grittier, but that again may have more to do with it being pre post-production.
The story and much of the dialogue is very much the same, taking minor turns here and there with the most notable divergence being when Sherlock gets in the cab after being drugged. There was an aspect of that scene that I liked rather a lot actually. Seeing Sherlock drugged and essentially abducted right in front of his friends who were watching had a gut wrenching feel to it, however, I believe that the final solution of having Sherlock go willingly with the cabbie was better. There is something to be said for "drugged Sherlock". I thought that Mr. Cumberbatch's drugged scene with the cabbie in the pilot was actually better than the drugged Sherlock scene in SiB.
The addition of the scene running through the streets and rooftops of London to catch up to the cab in the final version gave the entire episode a more action/adventure feel to it. That can be good or bad depending on your perspective. It certainly pointed out the physcho-somatic nature of John’s limp more clearly.
Anderson looks different with the facial hair. He actually looks less like a dick with that hair bec
A Study In Pink » Pilot » February 14, 2013 4:32 pm |
Estela wrote:
Is the pilot legally available online for us to watch?
Thanks.
I did a google search and this came up. it does work and now I have seen it for myself.
Character Analysis » Sherlock OCD? » February 14, 2013 7:12 am |
Sam wrote:
Yeah, OCD doesn't have to do with always wanting things neat/perfect. It's when someone has to perform "rituals" to deal with extreme anxiety. I don't think Sherlock has this
I don't think he cares much about things being tidy either. His room is clean but if he had an issue, he'd want the whole flat to be neat I believe
I agree with this. My daughter has OCD and her room is usually a flippin' mess. She wrote up a list of the things she obssesses about and what the rituals are that she needs to follow or she feels awkward and out of sorts. This list was necessary for the phychitrist so that we could get her on the right medication. (before I get told about the evils of medicating kids - she is also cutting and this is a necessary step)
One such behavior is: if she is walking along on a sunny day and the sun is coming through the trees in a dappled fashion, if she steps on a shadow with her left foot she has to step on another shadow of the same shade with her right foot or she can't move forward. It is the same with the tiles on the floor at school. To watch her walk down the hall is a strange sight. Once I saw her list I was shocked to realize how many obssessive traits she has because she hides them very well. She has an IQ of 140 and I think maybe the reason she has gotten as far as she has without this issue being addressed may be due to that intellectual advantage.
There is a TV show in America called Monk. He is a private dectetive with severe OCD but he still is able to solve crimes, even if he has to see his shrink several times over the course of a case. This is a TV version of someone with OCD and is overstated because that is where they get the comic relief, but some of the things that the character does, I see my own child doing. The point is this is not Sherlock at all, at least not the BBC Sherlock version of the character IMO.
Character Analysis » Molly Hooper Fan Club » February 14, 2013 6:01 am |
No, these are just examples of how Sherlock manipulates people to do his bidding for him. They all come just before he asks her to do something r get something for him. Oldest trick in the book really; find a soft target and aim for it when needed.
He needs Molly to get what he needs done in the lab. He's not on staff at the hospital, so he has to get favours from somewhere. She is the obvious choice and so easily manipulated as he shows time & time again.
The "I need you" scene is just another of those manipulations really.
I disagree. In the scene in TRF when Sherlock tells Molly that she counts and that he has always trusted her, I saw that as very genuine. At that point he knows what he must do to prepare for the end game and he needs her help to do it. There is no subdefuge like when he compliments her hair to get her to pull out some bodies after their paperwork has gone through. He genuinely trusts her, and he wants her help. The fact that she steadfastly offers that help is not, in my iopinion, due to manipulation on his part. He says to her that if it turned out that he was all she thought he was or even all he though he was, would she still want to help him. He is being very up front and honest with her here, and she still asks him what he needs.
Character Analysis » Molly Hooper Fan Club » February 14, 2013 5:54 am |
Sumac60 wrote:
Hey, the forum's still awake! Cool, because I watched "Scandal" a while ago and noticed a detail I can't figure out. When Sherlock is examining the phone under the microscope, we assume it's the real phone, because why else would he be viewing it? Also he has no reason to lie to Molly when he say's "it's a woman's". But then when she inadvertently gives him an idea about the address as the password, he turns and goes into the cupboard (or something) curiously marked with the sign for radioactivity, then enters the address in that phone as a possible code, which of course is wrong. Which phone is the real one now, then? If he's creating a perfect copy to fool Adler, why look at the copy under the microscope? And if the real one is under the microscope, why enter the code in the fake?
Or am I just blind and don't remember the scene?
I believe that he is viewing the phone via digital remote x-ray. The phone is in the x-ray machine. The image is being sent to the lense where he is viewing it. When Molly gives him an idea for the password he opens up the x-ray compartment and fishes the phone out to try out the password. The radiation symbol is there to signify that when the unit is active there is gamma radiation within the compartment, the same way you will see the radiation symbol outside x-ray room doors in a hospital.
I have not personally used one of the remote digital machines. I work for a small rural hospital that does not have that sort of budget. This kind of unit is really for labratory purposes and would for obvious reason not work on live patients which are the bulk of the people I x-ray. It might be useful for other purposes such as still born fetal images, but I'm sure that it is mostly slotted for forensics work that requires x-ray penetration.
Character Analysis » Appreciation for minor characters » February 13, 2013 11:00 am |
erunyauve wrote:
And I love Lestrade, too - he had me in the first episode, with 'Don't commit suicide.'
One of my favorite lines in the series! LOL
Character Analysis » Appreciation for minor characters » February 13, 2013 5:35 am |
My favorite minor character so far I think would be Henry Knight played by Russell Tovey in HoB. That character stood out to me a very genuine. I loved his flip out down in the hollow when the "Hound" turned up scaring the beegeebiz out of Lestrade, John, and everyone else.
Of note: Isn't it interesting that the trained police officer Lestrade shot at the Hound twice and missed twice and John Watson shot at it twice hitting it both times. That always stuck out to me.
Still no disrespect to Lestrade intended. He is my 4th favorite charcater. I do love his snark and his wisdom.
Character Analysis » Sherlock: "I don't care what people think." » February 12, 2013 11:06 am |
Mnemosyne wrote:
Sherlock is so engrossed in his work and his need to involve John in that work that it comes at the cost of all else, including John's social life. Food and sleep also become casualties when Sherlock goes to war.
This is an excellent point. I see lots of things that would be a normal part of human existance becoming essentially unimportant when Sherlock has wrapped his mind around some puzzle. Eating and sleeping as you mentioned and poor John had to live through in TBB, but also other things as well. I think that is why Sherlock has no real concept or interest in romance. It is something that would get in the way of the work and that is all he care about. It has never really been hinted at but perhaps other activities take a hit when he is engrossed. He doesn't eat or sleep, perhaps he doesn't bath either. Doesn't he tend to wear the same clothing over the course of a puzzle erm I mean case?
Fan Fic » Fanfics from forum members » February 11, 2013 11:10 pm |
Schmiezi wrote:
Alice, I've just read your story and dropped a few sentences there as review.
I always love stories in which John is clever enough to get that something was wrong.
=13pxThanks Schmiezi. Glad you liked it. From what the show has shown us, John is a very intelligent man. He had Sherlock figured out pretty quickly. Most people tell him to piss off because they cannot see past the fascade. John did.
Fan Fic » Fanfics from forum members » February 11, 2013 8:08 pm |
AliceI wrote:
Once the final chapter goes up, I'll drop a little note to say so.
Thanks
Alice I
It's finished
Character Analysis » Sherlock: "I don't care what people think." » February 11, 2013 8:00 pm |
Swanpride wrote:
It also explains to me Sherlock habit to sabotage John's relationships. It's not because he is in love with him, but because he doesn't really want to share "his" John. He doesn't want to be alone again.
=13px
I think you've hit the nail on the head here.
Character Analysis » Discussions on the John and Sherlock relationship » February 10, 2013 8:04 pm |
QuiteExtraordinary wrote:
AliceI wrote:
For instance Fox Mulder and Dana Scully "The X-Files" (at least in the series on TV) were never romantically involved even though most of the fans of that program saw them as a couple.
I think statements like this are what is perceived as offending by some. At least it upsets me sometimes.
I have seen most of the X-Files episodes. To me, that was another series where the writers quite cleverly played with the question if the two main characters were a couple or not. The question was never really answered - although they were never shown as a couple, the possibility always seemed to be there. Now when you say "they were never romantically involved even though most of the fans saw them as a couple", it sounds a bit as if you think you were better informed than all the other viewers and that your opinion on the nature of the relationship is the only right interpretation. That can make other people (who might have a different opinion) feel offended, even if it's not meant that way.
I saw an interview with the creator of the show and he said that Mulder and Scully would never wind up in bed together. The question of their possible romantic involvement was indeed answered by the creator of the characters. That was actually the first question asked and the answer was concise. The interviewer asked about situations within the series that pointed in that direction and he had the same answer. They are just very close friends and partners. He said that he even crafted an episode to address this. I don't remember which one, but I know that it dealt with the two of them being friends in past lives.
I don't seem to be able to express my opinion or any point of view for that matter without someone taking offense. Okay I suppose that tells me something.
Thanks - I'm out.
Character Analysis » Discussions on the John and Sherlock relationship » February 10, 2013 7:25 pm |
ancientsgate wrote:
I get real prickly when people who don't understand the concept of fan fic and who aren't interested in it start with comments about fan fic readers. Fine with me if someone doesn't like it and/or doesn't get it, but I don't appreciate comments about our "fangirl flailing" and how all of us must be naive schoolgirls.
May I ask a question without offending? Is this why you felt that I was judging you or folks who like slash? And is this why you felt offended when I commented about younger people not having as much understanding about the different facets of love? I've been trying to wrap my head around why my post irritated you and that other poster.
If this helps any I'll give you some background on myself so that it may help you to understand my post better. I am older than many authors of fan fic, but not the oldest by any means. I have been writing fan fiction for almost 10 years now as well as reading it. So I am not exactly new to it.
I am one of those authors/readers who is a a bit of a slave to cannon. Now in the case of Sherlock Holmes that term has subcategories. If I were reading/writing about the Sherlock Holmes that we see Benedict Cumberbatch portray that would be very different than the Sherlock that Robert Downey Jr. portrays. Cumberbatch's Sherlock is practically asexual where as Downey's Sherlock was found by the maid tied spread eagle to the bed, naked as a jay bird with a throw pillow over his hoop-d-do. These characters may both be Sherlock Holmes but their cannon is quite different.
The point is, that I will read and write stories that follow cannon for any given character. I still do not see the BBC Sherlock and Watson as a romantic couple, so given that I guess I don't read Johnlock. I would not say that a Johnlock story is bad, just not my cup of tea.
As for my comments about younger readers, I stand by that observation. Many young people simply have not lived long enough or experienced enough of life and
Character Analysis » Sherlock: "I don't care what people think." » February 10, 2013 5:10 pm |
This scene that has everyone talking - I just pulled it up and watched it again. Then watched it with subtitles, then watched it a third time.
Call me dense, but I just don't see what everyone is talking about. Sherlock did put an emphasis on the word 'friend' that I saw, but the camera pans over to Sebastian at that point then to John when he corrects the word friend and identifies himself as a colleague. You see Sebastian scratch his neck and turn to sit down before the camera pans back to Sherlock.
Maybe John was concerned about being mistaken as a "friend" That would fit with every other episode in the series, but I honestly didn't see any hurt or other emotion on Sherlock's face at all.
Someone here mentioned that they didn't know why Sherlock brought John along to the bank. He brought John almost everywhere with him. Remember Mrs. Hudson hid his skull. LOL I get the distinct impression that John only stays at home when he really doesn't want to go on some adventure, like say when Sherlock harpooned a pig. A trip to the bank usually wouldn't hold out the danger of bloodshed; also John had just gotten through asking Sherlock to lend him some money.
Character Analysis » Discussions on the John and Sherlock relationship » February 9, 2013 10:35 pm |
Davina wrote:
To which we can add Mycroft becoming a New Age Traveller. (I do not intend any offence to New Age Travellers. Nor indeed to middle-aged members of The Establishment).
LOL
Speaking from the point of view of a middle-aged member of anything I appreciate your caveat! (Don't let the avatar fool you. That IS a pic of me as I choose to be seen and how I view myself in my dreams )
Character Analysis » Sherlock: "I don't care what people think." » February 9, 2013 8:27 pm |
Interesting thread.
My comments will be limited to the BBC Sherlock version of the character.
I have gotten the sense that Sherlock for the most part genuinely does not care what others think about him with some notable exceptions. The people he cares about are important to him and he does care what they think; John in particular. He also cares what someone he views as his intellectual equal thinks.
Someone pointed out that he cared what the cabbie thought in SiP. That makes a sort of sense. This man, however common he may appear, had a mind that could grasp things almost on the same level as Sherlock. I say almost because I still did not get that he was really near Sherlock's level. The cabbie was excellent at reading people, but I think that was where his expertise ended. If he had Sherlock's ability then he would not be driving a cab. He only started killing people after he was diagnosed with an incurable aneurysm, so if he was as gifted as Sherlock then why did he not use that intelligence to find a better means of providing for himself and his family?
Moriarty - who genuinely is Sherlock’s intellectual equal is another possible exception. Sherlock made a comment that stands out. "Why is my brother so determined to bore me when somebody else is being so delightfully interesting?" Sherlock called his game "elegant" He definitely cared what this new adversary thought about him, but that all changed when Moriarty strapped a vest of explosives to John. From that point Sherlock only cared what Moriarty was thinking in relation to how he could trap him and ultimately defeat him.
Lestrade and Mrs. Hudson are also interesting cases. Sherlock very obviously respects Lestrade. To a point I believe that he cares what the man thinks, or else he wouldn’t use that little texting method to insert himself into a case that has caught his fancy. He has a need to impress Lestrade so based on that he does indeed care what the man thinks.
Mrs. Hudson is unique. She
Fan Fic » Need British beta » February 9, 2013 12:42 pm |
Davina wrote:
I'm happy to proof read as well if you pm the phrases, or the whole thing.
)
Will the PM system handle 4,000 word messages. My chapters for this story are averaging that number of words.
I'm on my way home from work in a moment so I'll send them along later after a nap. (Night shift in the snow Urgh!)
Character Analysis » Discussions on the John and Sherlock relationship » February 9, 2013 11:54 am |
ancientsgate wrote:
AliceI wrote:
...These two men complete each other on a basic level that has nothing to do with physical romance. This is the main reason I cannot really understand why so many people see them as a couple... I have found over the years that many young people do not have a clear understanding that two people whether the same sex or opposite sexes can have an extremely close and loving relationship that is completely platonic. Romantic interest is only one side or one facet of love, but it does seem to be the side of love that almost all younger people focus on. Perhaps that is because as we grow older and experience more of life and relationships we learn that a physical romance is not always necessary between two people....
I am in my 60s, so I was "younger people" a long, long time ago. Liking/enjoying the idea of romance and a physical relationship between Sherlock and John (fan fic, fan art) has nothing to do with age and stage of life. You are making broad, sweeping generalizations-- you have a right to do so, but they are only your opinion. Hey, it takes all kinds; if Johnlock doesn't it do it for you, it's certainly easy enough to avoid the fan fic and fan art that features it. But please leave us who do enjoy that fictional aspect of their relationship to do so in peace and without judgment.
I am somewhat confused as to why you think I am judging you. This is an observation that I have made over some number of years. It has no bearing on my opinion of people who like slash. I personally love the character Captain Jack Harkness.
I am someone who prefers the characters I read about to remain in cannon. That is where much slash diverts me. It would be the same if Moriarty began saving orphans and John Watson began robbing banks of the weekend. Those behaviors are out of character for them so that is why I pretty much avoid AU stories. For me in most cases slash falls into that same catagory. It is OOC.
I fell in love w
Character Analysis » Discussions on the John and Sherlock relationship » February 9, 2013 6:13 am |
Hello - I thought I'd throw my own 2 cents in. I see John Watson and Sherlock Holmes as two broken men who need each other.
Sherlock has little to no understanding of appropriate emotional-social behavior. He is so intent on his mind working overtime that "sentiment" just gets in the way. This is a trait that, to some degree, he shares with his brother Mycroft, making one wonder what their childhood must have been like. John provides Sherlock with a social and moral conscience. He acts as a GPS for the genius when he gets so lost inside his own mind that he forgets such simple things that the rest of the world takes for granted, such as sleeping and eating. John often acts as a guide to appropriate social behavior which seem to be quite beyond Sherlock. John acts as protector, and guardian in some ways, brother or confidant in other ways. He seems to be uniquely capable of taking in Sherlock's acerbic rhetoric and seeing past the barbs to hear the truth of what he is trying to convey. Basically John is Sherlock's filter, since he operates without one, hence the reason most people tell Sherlock to piss off.
John Watson is also broken, but in a very different manner. Somehow being sent home from the war in Afghanistan due to the injury he suffered destroyed his confidence in not only himself, but the world in which he lives. We see him dreaming of combat in the opening sequence and waking with a start. He is panting and upset and by observation he looks as though these images are haunting him. Mycroft Holmes on the other hand feels that John actually misses the war. I think that Mycroft only has it half right.
The war changed John as it would change anyone. He felt the most alive while in that combat situation because he needed to stay sharp and focused in order to survive. Now that he is back home in England with no war to keep his mind working on a survival basis, he doesn't know what to do with himself. He doesn't have the need for adrenaline surging through h