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A Scandal In Belgravia » Some disturbing implications about Sherlock's motives... » January 13, 2014 2:03 am

1) Could Sherlock and Mycroft have let Irene go BECAUSE the terrorists would do something worse to her than they could? (Although, I'm not quite sure why the terrorists had to kill her. She was free...they could have sent her right back out to collect more information.)

2) I THINK it's implied that Sherlock rescued Irene and she's still alive, but if you just watch what's happening onscreen in the final scene, he could be taking over the job of beheading her.

It's Canon » Which are the 'Johnlock' moments from Canon ? » January 13, 2014 1:08 am

How about Holmes telling Watson to "engage a front room and purchase the necessaries for the night." (Three-Quarter). Nekosmuse and her followers interpret that as Holmes telling Watson to buy lube. 

Regardless, he definitely refers to one "room," not "rooms."

That same story also contains Watson's confession that he has lost touch with the medical field...clearly, working with Holmes was his full-time career by then.

Character Analysis » Discussions on the John and Sherlock relationship » January 13, 2014 1:03 am

VaticanCameoBrooch wrote:

Look, you guys....

You know, the first time I saw Benedict and Martin as Holmes and Watson, I was reminded of Sheldon and Leonard.
 

Sherlock Poetry, Stories & Books » Book Club 2nd Sept (SCAN) » January 13, 2014 12:46 am

Holmes certainly has stereotypical ideas about women...but do you notice that he hardly ever turns any women over to Scotland Yard, (even when they're involved in the crimes), and will sometimes cover up a crime to protect a woman (like ABBE)?

Sherlock Poetry, Stories & Books » Book Club 2nd Sept (SCAN) » January 13, 2014 12:37 am

Swanpride wrote:

I think the whole point of Scandal in Bohemia is that Holmes, who is a misogonyst either way, doesn't even consider that the "American Adventuress with questionable reputation" might be the wronged party, or actually smart enough to see through his little disguise. In the end, it's not just Irene Adlers intelligence and ability for disguise which impresses her, it's her integrity. And what all adaptations seems to overlook is that she married someone else, and since she had her pick, she most likely choose the young dashing lawyer because she honestly loved him and belived that he would do everything for her.
This is my main beef with what the show did...it would have been great if it turned out that after all, she wasn't the criminal she seemed to be (I certainly never got "innocent who stumbled over the wrong information from her"), but had a more noble motivation for what she did.
And yes, the whole point of the story is that she beat Sherlock Holmes. Why is that so difficult to put on screen? It is one of ACD best stories for exactly this reason.

I hope it's still ok to comment on this "old" thread. I have been obsessing a bit over Irene ever since I saw clips of BBC-SCAN.

I am glad that everyone here is commenting on the changes made to Irene. This is a perfect example of places where, although some changes are certainly necessary due to the modern setting, they changed things they didn't need to change.

1) The subject of the blackmail would have to be different. In canon, Irene is able to blackmail her former lover over their PAST relationship...which MAY not even have been very sexual. Nowadays sex is really only blackmail material if it involves breaking a marriage vow, and even then, it doesn't necessarily "ruin" somebody. Bill Clinton, anybody? Embarrassed, yes. Ruined, no. He made his accusers look worse than he did, in the long run.

2) I was frankly surprised that Irene was seen to have such "power" over this King and potentia

General Benedict Appreciation » Fun with Names » January 13, 2014 12:02 am

All the talk about what to call Cumberbatch fans got me thinking about wordplay on the names.


I'm not even sure what all of these words would mean...

Benediction...

Benaddiction...

Benedictum

Cumberbachelor

Cumberbachelorette

Cumberbuns (there is a piece of formal men's clothing called a cumberbun, which I'm sure BC sometimes wears, but it could also mean...you know.

Cumberband



Sherlockution (this one I didn't make up, I found it somewhere else, referring to famous lines from canon)

And whichever "ship" you favor, there are a lot of good "ship" names:

Adlock
Sherene
Mollock
Molliarty
Holmesper? (Holmes + Hooper)
Watstan (Morstan + Watson)
Mystrade
Molstrade

I am a fan of Holmes/Watson as a pairing but I'm not such a fan of Johnlock as a name. 

Benedict's Non-Sherlock Work » In which other roles would you like to see him? » January 12, 2014 10:57 pm

If you've been following a recent real-life classisfied information scandal:

...can you see Benedict as Edward Snowden? Or am I just making an association because of the Assange movie?

Or possibly, as a young Ralph Nader?

Character Analysis » Sherlock- Asperger's syndrome and sociopathy » January 12, 2014 9:23 pm

Is there no room for "different" in this culture?  I fear to think how Leonardo Da Vinci would have fared.

Well, there's a trend today toward diagnosing EVERYBODY with something.

I'm not sure the "genius equal mentally illl" thing is specific to any one time period. There was a time we didn't talk so much in terms of mental health diagnoses but I'm not sure "genius" or "different" has ever been fully accepted...I don't think Da Vinci was really appreciated in his own time.

And in canon, Watson does use words like "manic" and "depression," to refer to Holmes' changing moods.

I am actually an "Aspie," too. 

You will see how my posts begin to reflect the way I over-analyze everything.

But I'm more like Watson - in my tendency to obsess over somebody or something the way he does about Sherlock. 


I could never have Sherlock's career because I'm not nearly that observant of small details in my environment.

But on the other hand, I sometimes feel other people's feelings. My mom works with kids who need special education services: when she talks to me about being angry because the schools won't provide services, I get angry.

General Benedict Appreciation » Sherlock's Popularity with Women, In-Universe » January 12, 2014 8:34 pm

Are there that many women; apart from Molly, who do fall for him in the earlier episodes?

I guess I was thinking of Irene...does she not count, because she was "just playing the game?" I thought her infamous "have you on the desk," line probably reflected how many female fans feel about Benedict. 

Character Analysis » Sherlock- Asperger's syndrome and sociopathy » January 12, 2014 8:10 pm

Here's a related, and perhaps troubling question: what makes Sherlock unique or different today? 

In Victorian times, his disinclination toward socializing, his ability to tell off authority figures, and to some extent, his advanced knowledge of criminology, made him an eccentric.

Today, we're always hearing that lack of empathy and other borderline-sociopathic traits are increasingly common, especially in younger people. Certainly the MEDIA is full of characters who are broken / damaged / dysfunctional / addicted in some way.

Character Analysis » Moriarty; an in-depth analysis. » January 12, 2014 8:05 pm

I thought this series spent a bit too much time on Moriarty's obsession with Sherlock. Everything he does, at leat in Reichenbach, is about bringing down Sherlock. Which means that when Sherlock goes up against him, he's saving mostly himself (and his friends.). So it becomes a personal thing. I know Sherlock is motivated by mental stimulation more than a desire for justice, but I prefer for some other good cause to be served when he solves a crime, rather than just protecting himself. When he fakes the suicide, he's saving other people, yes, but they're in danger only because they associated with him the first place. If he had stopped Moriarty from doing something bigger, the sacrifice would be cooler (although I do like that he would die to save John.)

Also, as someone else mentioned,  Moriarty is not nearly as signficant in canon as he becomes in most adaptations. Holmes really mentions him in only two stories, and we never meet him. Holmes is not shown to be constantly obsessed with him throughout canon.

Character Analysis » Discussions on the John and Sherlock relationship » January 12, 2014 8:00 pm

One of the places where this series has really deviated from canon is in giving both boys too many other people to be attracted to.

In the originals, I don't know if Holmes and Watson were gay, but they lived together and acted like "life partners" in every other sense much of the time. Even when Watson was married and had his own medical practice,  he dropped everything when Holmes came to him for help. And he pretty much only had one love interest / marriage - Mary. 

Canon-Holmes may have been asexual, but there is NO doubt that the human being he cares for most in the world is Watson. He is mean to Watson sometimes, but not to the degree of this series.

He did try to talk to Watson out of getting married, and, during the years of Watson's marriage, seemed to come up with every excuse to go and see him (even when it was clear his assistance wasn't really needed for the case.)

In canon, Holmes really didn't have much interaction with Irene Adler at all; in this series there was WAY too much sexual tension between them. 

Then there's Molly, whom he is mean to, but also kisses at one point, and who is apparently in on the faked death. (Which means he confided in her when he didn't confide in John.)

I guess my point is, their relationship doesn't have to be sexual, but canonically, Sherlock, at least, should love Watson or no one. If Sherlock Holmes is not receptive to sex of any kind, fine; but don't have him be more attracted to / distracted by a woman than by Watson.

Other Adaptations » Jeremy Brett's Sherlock Holmes » January 12, 2014 6:27 pm

I'm glad folks here have at least mentioned Jeremy's relationships with men. So many of his fans are unwilling to acknowledge that.

I think Brett may have been the most slash-friendly Holmes. There is something very...romantic...about his interactions with Watson: frequent touching, kind of a bedroom voice much of the time. And they often interact like a married couple, and Watson never does marry a woman in that 'verse.

Between the bisexuality and mental health issues, Jeremy's personal life ended up resembling Holmes' in many ways.

Introductions Please... » Hello from the Midwest-US » January 12, 2014 6:24 pm

Northwest part, very close to the Michigan border.

Sherlock Links » The Quintessential "JohnLock" Blog » January 12, 2014 6:22 pm

Written by a Canadian who uses the online name Nekosmuse, this blog "Decodes the Subtext," of Canon and most adaptations. 

As Nekosmuse herself says, she was writing about Holmes and Watson as a couple back when suggesting that Holmes was gay got you "blacklisted," from Sherlockain societies:

http://www.nekosmuse.com/withlovesh/

(Incidentially, before the BBC-series, the word "Sherlockian" used to mean a fan of Sherlock Holmes in general, in the U.S., while Holmesian was one from the UK.)

General Benedict Appreciation » Sherlock's Popularity with Women, In-Universe » January 12, 2014 6:16 pm

MahnSherlolly03 wrote:

Mary Me wrote:

dartmoordoggers wrote:

Are there that many women; apart from Molly, who do fall for him in the earlier episodes?

I can see it being a thing now. After all Sherlock is a good looking young detective that regularly features on the TV, newspapers and blogs. 'the famous Mr. Holmes.'

In the real world the crew try to keep the fans out of shot; but perversely in Sherlock world it would be quite normal for fans of the detective to congregate outside of 221B hoping to catch a glimpse and maybe an autograph. After all 'brainy is the new sexy'.

What woman had the chance to approach him in the earlier episodes? Rudeness often undermines good looks. 

Yeah, I sometimes wonder why Molly even liked him. I wonder if she saw a side of him besides the cold, rude detective?

I really wonder about Molly too...and John, frankly. I see what people see in Benedict, but I have trouble with they see in this version of Sherlock. He is just TOO MEAN. Makes it harder to believe in "Johnlock." Canon-Holmes, and Brett's Holmes, had mean streaks, but there was more...I don't know...romance, in their relationships with their Watsons.

And because it WAS the Victorian era, it was easier to believe that there were things going on that weren't shown, because they couldn't be shown. In today's media, there's not much need for subtext.

With regard to the question of men's or women's "virtue": in the original "Scandal in Bohemia" of canon, we are supposed to believe that a King will be "ruined," in that his princess-fiance will not marry him, if she learns of his past relationship with Irene Adler (of which Irene has proof). because the princess is just that puritanical. I guess I would sort of have thought that queens and princesses of that time would accept their husbands doing such thing...or just blame it all on the woman involved. I kind of think that really, the King wanted to disgrace Irene in the eyes of her new husband.
 

Introductions Please... » Hello from the Midwest-US » January 12, 2014 4:54 am

Sherlockforum dot com calls itself a "UK community." I was afraid this one was supposed to be mainly for UK fans, too, since it refers to BBC instead of PBS.

Character Analysis » Anderson in Many Happy Returns » January 12, 2014 4:15 am

Oh, and to follow up on my discussion of Anderson vs. John: Doesn't John  have a line something like,  "The press always turn. They'll turn against you?"

Which turns out to be accurate, of course, but I don't like that it was John who told Sherlock that. I want John to be caught up in the Sherlock-worship. In canon, he's much more that: there are lines where he calls Holmes his "master," and "the man whom above all others I revere."

Character Analysis » Anderson in Many Happy Returns » January 12, 2014 4:13 am

sj4iy wrote:

SherlocklivesinOH wrote:

I always wonder if part of the reason Sherlock stays in hiding so long (both here, and in canon, where his reasons for running away don't really make sense) is to teach Scotland Yard a lesson: "See how you like it when you're out of your depth and you don't have me to help you!"

So, I like the idea that some of his detractors are coming around. (I always like it when the bullies, or those who ostracized someone, have to really eat crow and acknowledge that that person was awesome. I want there to be major public tributing of Sherlock on the part of those who previously didn't like him.)

But on the other hand, as a big Johnlock fan, I want John to be the biggest believer. Here, I'm not focusing on whether or not their relationship could be sexual...but in canon and most other adaptations, Watson is always Holmes' number-one fan.

And now Anderson is believing in Sherlock more than "his Watson." John seems to believe Sherlock was innocent, and really was a genius...but it's Anderson who deduces Sherlock may have survived the fall....and loses his job over it...which kind of implies he believes Sherlock capable of geater feats of genius than John does. Does that make sense?

In other adaptations, we don't get much sense that Watson ever really "moves on." In Jeremy Brett's version, he becomes a police surgeon...implying that he's trying to keep doing the work he did with Holmes.
 

Well, in both, Sherlock needs to 'stay dead' in order to infiltrate Moriarty's network and dismantle it.  If they know he's alive, they would try to kill him.  Death is the perfect cover.

In the original stories, Sherlock didn't really "infiltrate Moriarty's network." Moriarty falls over the waterfall. Holmes' canonical account of what he has been doing for the past few years is notorious for being full of contradictions and implausible reasons. Holmes tells Watson he had to disappear so that Moriarty's henchmen wouldn't get him...but

General Benedict Appreciation » Sherlock's Popularity with Women, In-Universe » January 12, 2014 3:22 am

Sherlock Holmes does not usually have as many female admirers as he does in this series. (The Irene Adler of canon is not REMOTELY into him.)

Does anyone think that they have women falling for Sherlock to reflect how women feel about Benedict? That the females who are in love with Sherlock, in-universe, are sort of mouthpieces for female Benedict fans?

(I imagine, when Scandal in Belgravia is on):

Irene: I would have you, right here on this desk, 'til you beg for mercy twice.

Female viewers watching: "Get in line, Irene" or "You and me both."

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