It's Canon » Which are the 'Johnlock' moments from Canon ? » January 26, 2014 4:25 am |
"Hard somethings," is an unfortunate phrase.
But I think that other quote, about the sale of the practice, is perhaps the Johnlock-iest moment in all of canon. It really seems like two Victorian men's equivalent of a same-sex marriage...since Holmes basically said, "Please give up your own career and be my partner," and Watson agreed, at the mere request.
And where then, does Watson's income come from? Either Holmes is paying all the expenses, or he's sharing the fees of the detective practice (which would be only fair, really). But it seems like it involves a commitment to be a partner, in some sense, to Holmes for a very long term.
There is a great fanfic by the writer with the username Jem's Bird, where Holmes draws up a contract to make Watson a "a full partner" ostensibly in the business sense, but Watson figures out it's Holmes' way of marrying him.
Ironically, though, in the Jeremy Brett version, Watson maintains his own medical practice, which in a way makes it feel more like a marriage: he has his own career, so his reasons for living at Baker Street aren't because that's where his work is.
Character Analysis » What is it about Sherlock Holmes? » January 26, 2014 4:18 am |
saturnR wrote:
The best parallel example I can think of that features a character that likes the Sherlockian type is House MD where Dr House says on a date with Dr Cameron:
"You live under the delusion that you can fix anything that's broken. That's why you married a man who was dying of cancer. I'm twice your age & I'm not even nice. What I am, is what you need. I'm damaged."
Of course Cameron's relationship with House is closer to Molly's but the reason he gave for her wanting to date him was spot on. That is very close to the reason why Dr John Watson seems to be attracted to "psychopaths" (according to Sherlock & Mary)
House was actually BASED on Holmes. Hence the name. Do you remember how that series ended?
But I was asking about Holmes' attraction for people both in-universe and out.
Fan Fic » Plot Bunnies: Opening the Hatch! » January 26, 2014 4:15 am |
Question: should this thread be just for plot bunnies for the BBC-verse, or for other Holmes-verses as well?
General Sherlock Discussion » The Ambiguously-Explained Faked Suicide...part of a trend? » January 26, 2014 3:23 am |
The ambiguity of the explanation(s) of how Sherlock faked his death has been gone over and over and over...and yet, if you think about it, it's not the first time they have given us Sherlock doing an-almost impossible thing and NOT really explained it.
For example: how did he manage to be in Pakistan, (or wherever?) right when Irene was about to be executed...show up at her execution...no one recognizes him...and no one he associated with in London knew he had gone there?
It's like something Superman would do, and gives off an overtone of suggesting that Sherlock is superhuman. I know he's not intended to be, but it comes off like that.
And, while perhaps not quite as impossible on the same level, I'm also wondering about how, if the whole idea behind faking his death was that he needed to be in hiding, he was able to be standing out in a cemetery listening to John eulogize him, and not be seen. It just seems like he's taking a chance to be out in the open like that so soon after faking his death.
I can believe there could be places to hide in a cemetery but I think of them as kind of open fields...and he doesn't seem very well hidden, in that scene. I'm surprised that John didn't light eyes on him, actually, because at that point John would still kind of be looking for him.
The Empty Hearse » Sherlock and Molly in The Empty Hearse » January 26, 2014 1:00 am |
Willow wrote:
At the risk of going meta I would note that the window smashing might be a desirable feature of the fantasy
I said before, it does sometimes seem like Molly, and also Irene, serve as stand-ins for female fans (particularly of Benedict) expressing their feelings.
The Empty Hearse » Reunion - do you think... » January 26, 2014 12:40 am |
Another bad move on Sherlock's part was admitting that he was there at the grave when John made his speech. So John would be not just, "you should have known how I would feel," but "Wait, you actually KNEW how I felt?!"
And then the revelation of how many people WERE in on the plan. Because that makes John feel like Sherlock trusted other people MORE than him, which, for Sherlock, is like saying he has friends closer than John.
The Empty Hearse » The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer?? » January 25, 2014 11:15 pm |
lisa wrote:
Can we address the change in Sherlock? He seems friendlier more humble, which is all explainable, he had so many of his friends come through and help him. I really had to get used to that though, but what is with the ladies man routine. He is having sex now? He was "the virgin" just a few episodes ago. Now don't get me wrong, I loved it, but I didn't expect it. My secret fantasy always was that after he saved Irene Adler they went off to some exoctic hotel and she "Thanked" him. So now I see that she probably did and taught him a few things. RoWWWWWW! Wish they made that into an episode! LOL!
Well, I could totally see Irene making that offer. I could even see her coming to the pathology lab and saying, "Come on Miss Hooper, let me give you a makeover and teach you some 'tricks' and let's both 'have dinner' with Sherlock."
In spite of her...history, I could see Irene playing, to Sherlock, the part of "maiden worshipping the hero who saved her."
But I would have thought that Sherlock's response would be, "Now, you know sex isn't my area. But you DO owe me." And I think Irene could have helped in some way with either the death-fakery or his hiding out for two years. I think one reason for Sherlock's saving Irene was so someone with that much cunning and ability to play tricks would "owe him one."
The Empty Hearse » Sherlock and Molly in The Empty Hearse » January 25, 2014 10:37 pm |
MahnSherlolly03 wrote:
SherlocklivesinOH wrote:
Molly's maintaining a crush on Sherlock throughout Season 2, and really sticking her neck out for him (as someone pointed out, she's taking a HUGE risk professionally), kind of amazed me. Given the way he sometimes treats her, a more logical reaction would have been, "I'll save him the trouble of having to FAKE death."
But someone thought his taunting her about making Moriarty go crazy, ("You went out with him three times and he stole the crown jewels...etc...so I suggest for the sake of law and order you avoid relationships") was Sherlock-ese (Sherlockution?) for telling Molly not to date so he could have her all to himself.
Was the scenario where he swung through the window and kissed her HER fantasy? It seems like one she would have.Molly's dedication to Sherlock has also been very surprising to me, especially considering that it's not just a question of "this is the guy I like/love so I'm going to help him." Molly seems to have a sweet and caring nature, and to be genuinely interested in people, above and beyond romantic attactments. She likes Sherlock, maybe even loves him, but in TRF, I think she proved to me that she just had a respect and love for humanity that surpassed her crush. Therefore, I believe Molly would continue to help Sherlock Holmes if and when her desire for a relationship with him ended. I love that. I thought she was gonna be a girl with a Voldytrix-esque crush as opposed to a real person, and I'm very happy with how her character has developed.
…
I wondered about that. I think it'd be OOC for Sherlock to be thinking anything along those lines directly, but who's to say that he didn't subconciously resent the idea of her dating anyone (besides him)?
The fantasy with the mask theory, including that frankly amazing kiss (why couldn't it be real?!), was all Anderson. Why he was fantasizing about Sherlock kissing his pathologist, we'll never know (fanservice!), but I bet Mo
The Empty Hearse » Sherlock and Molly in The Empty Hearse » January 25, 2014 9:06 pm |
Molly's maintaining a crush on Sherlock throughout Season 2, and really sticking her neck out for him (as someone pointed out, she's taking a HUGE risk professionally), kind of amazed me. Given the way he sometimes treats her, a more logical reaction would have been, "I'll save him the trouble of having to FAKE death."
But someone thought his taunting her about making Moriarty go crazy, ("You went out with him three times and he stole the crown jewels...etc...so I suggest for the sake of law and order you avoid relationships") was Sherlock-ese (Sherlockution?) for telling Molly not to date so he could have her all to himself.
Was the scenario where he swung through the window and kissed her HER fantasy? It seems like one she would have.
Series Three Reviews » Review of S3 on Decoding the Subtext Blog (Blog focused on Johnlock) » January 25, 2014 8:49 pm |
silverblaze wrote:
Her liking of a production seems to be directly related to the amount of gay subtext she can find. Good writer but that got tedious after a while.
That's probably a fair enough thing to say about the blog overall. But the criticisms she makes of Empty Hearse aren't really related to subtext.
The Empty Hearse » The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer?? » January 25, 2014 8:43 pm |
I thought I said this somewhere but now I can't remember where:
I'm not really sure Moffit, Gattis, etc, even know how Sherlock did it! On most shows, that would be called a cop-out. But here it kind of feels like: Sherlock Holmes outsmarted even them!
The Empty Hearse » Reunion - do you think... » January 25, 2014 2:48 am |
tonnaree wrote:
"I think it's odd that Mary giggles over her fiance having a fight, and doesn't seem to care either "
She does care. She cares a lot. When Sherlock first revels himself she is as outraged as John. When the boys are staring at each other you can hear her in the back ground giving Sherlock hell. You can tell from her reactions that she knows exactly who this person is, what he means to John and what he's done.
She only giggles after they've been thrown out of 2 different resturaunts and by that point I think I would've been giggling too.
I don't rememeber her being mad, but the PBS version was supposed to be uncut so I don't think it's edited out...
I didn't quite get that they were switching restaurants...I mean, maybe I did, but it was done kind of choppily, with the scene cutting from one to the other?
The Empty Hearse » Reunion - do you think... » January 25, 2014 1:09 am |
I doubt John Watson is afraid of any damned thing.
By "afraid to know" I meant that John wouldn't want to know if Sherlock did any REALLY bad things. He wouldn't want to have to suspect that Sherlock could have been involved in someone's death, or known someone was going to die, in order to use the body.
The Empty Hearse » Sherlock and Molly in The Empty Hearse » January 25, 2014 12:59 am |
I didn't think of it before: Sherlock didn't make Molly grieve his death, because she knew he wasn't dead, but there was a danger he could have gotten her hopes up falsely. Molly seems to have changed by TEH, I could see the Molly of Season 2 thinking, "I was the one he chose to help him! That means I'm the one he really cares about! We could still end up together." And yet, it kind of seems like the opposite happens, in that she does a better job of moving on from him during the Hiatus (despite having reason to believe he could come back) than John really does.
There is a more noticeable difference in how Sherlock treats Molly now (in TEH) than in how he treats John.
Series Three Reviews » Review of S3 on Decoding the Subtext Blog (Blog focused on Johnlock) » January 24, 2014 11:34 pm |
Decoding the Subtext is a blog that is ALL about Johnlock. The author, known as Nekosmuse, decodes EVERYTHING Sherlock, from canon on out, for evidence of a romantic/sexual relationship between Holmes and Watson. And she finds plenty, especially in canon.
She has done reviews of all of the BBC series so far, now including Season 3. She was enthusiastic about the series at first, but now...not so much:
A Study In Pink » The "state of her knees" line » January 24, 2014 3:12 am |
...has been said to be Sherlock exposing Anderson and Donovan's having an affair. Was Sherlock saying that Sally had been kneeling in order to...gain access to... a part of Anderson's anatomy? A la Monica Lewinsky, more or less?
Character Analysis » Sherlock- Asperger's syndrome and sociopathy » January 23, 2014 12:41 am |
@ Raven Morgan Leigh, can you cite a specific example? Mary Morstan is a canonical love interest for Watson but she's not married when they meet.
He refers to having "experience of women on three continents." I guess I was young enough and naive enough when I first read canon that I didn't assume that meant he had necessarily SLEPT with all those women...but in any case that phrase says nothing about them being married.
I don't necesarily insist that Watson was canonically a saint. (Is that a pun?) He's a pretty terrible husband to Mary, actually, always running off with Holmes. Almost like a husband would do if he were cheating.
BUT, I know we are saying this series is not canon, BUT in canon, and in the Brett series, and, as far as I know in the Rathbone films, Holmes and Watson are NEVER violent toward each other. They do have verbal quarrels, and times of more coldness and distance, but there's a lot of tenderness between them, and their most serious acts of violence are in the name of protecting each other.
True of most pastiches, too. The only except I can think of is The Seven Percent Solution, when Watson knocks Holmes down to prevent him escaping from the house where he's being treated for cocaine. And Watson admits that his anger added force to the blow.
I haven't seen the Russian series, or the Downey/Law movies.
Ironically, I think the only place I've ever come across Holmes and Watson physically fighting before IS fan fic - of the darker variety.
I think that may be what bothers me about this new series. John being physically violent toward Sherlock is a HUGE depature from everything I've ever seen of the character. Whereas the Sherlock may not be so much of a depature from the usual.
Part of the idea of idealizing him in fanfic is that Holmes would only let his guard down with someone ideal,, and I don't think Watson has to be perfect, but I like the implication that he provides "balance" to Holmes' nuttiness and is a role model in some ways.
The Empty Hearse » The whole bonfire scene » January 23, 2014 12:36 am |
Wouldn't you think John would be more traumatized by it (especially if he already has PTSD, though that's a little debatable.) And shouldn't he have injuries?
For a moment I thought John was sending the texts, pretending to be in danger to teach Sherlock a lesson.
The Empty Hearse » Reunion - do you think... » January 23, 2014 12:30 am |
Do you think when John stormed out of the restaurant he seriously intended to have nothing more to do with Sherlock?
I do think his anger was realistic; what wasn't realistic was for him to forgive right after another stunt that involved Sherlock tricking him and messing with his mind (i.e., the bomb.)
Unless, because he was reminded of how dangerous life with Sherlock can be, he was thinking something like, "God knows what danger he must have been in the last two years; maybe it's just as well he protected me from it."
And maybe, he's afraid to know too much about what Sherlock gets up to out of his sight. Example: how was there so conveniently a body available to "play" Sherlock's corpse.
Or maybe the deception will continue to be an issue between them (again, haven't seen the other episodes.)
And, though I know enough about TSofT and HLV to realize this isn't going to happen, I wouldn't put it past Moffit and Gattis to reveal in a subsequent episode that John was in on the plan / onto Sherlock all along, and the scene in the restaurant was totally staged!
I think it's odd that Mary giggles over her fiance having a fight, and doesn't seem to care either 1) that Sherlock hurt the man she supposedly loves, or 2) that if they did make up, Sherlock would occupy a lot of John's time.
The Empty Hearse » Sherlock's Name is Cleared... » January 23, 2014 12:20 am |
Well, it makes sense for Mycroft to do something about it.
But I am surprise John didn't devote himself to the clearing of Sherlock's name when he thought Sherlock was dead...perhaps for his own "therapy" as much as for Sherlock's sake. Something to live for connected with Sherlock, one last thing he could for Sherlock, a way to somehow feel "connected" to Sherlock.
In the other adaptations there is no damage done to Holmes' reputation before his disappearance. In the Granada series starring Brett, Watson works as a police surgeon during the Hiatus. It's as if he wants to keep his life as much like life with Holmes as possible.