BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Sherlock and Molly in The Empty Hearse

Mary Me · January 5, 2014 8:00 pm

We need a thread for this.

As a Sherlolly shipper, I was completely happy about the multiple moments between the two in "The Empty Hearse" so that after having watched it for the first time I thought: "It is happening! It is about to become canon!" Could Sherlock's new behaviour towards Molly lean towards romantic?
However, after rewatching their scenes many times I have come to the conclusion that my previous thoughts were far too optimistic.

Let's talk the scene when Molly visits Sherlock at Baker Street because he asked her to do so.
Sherlock: "Would you like to-"
Molly: "-have dinner?"
Sherlock: "-solve crimes?"
(a nod perhaps to Irene Adler and her double entendre, but with definitely a much more innocent connotation )

I absolutely love how supportive and encouraging Sherlock is with her during this scene. Molly believes she is there as nothing but a replacement for John, someone to keep him company while he mourns the loss of his real partner, but this is not the case.

“You’re not being John, you’re being yourself.”
Just wow.

Now, at the crime scene, I really like how excited Molly seems. She’s in her element, as in death, bodies and murder. The dynamic here is fascinating in my opinion. Because we clearly see that Molly can't replace John, however, she isn't supposed to anyway. We see that Molly's methods resemble those of Sherlock's and that they're very much alike when it comes to analysing a body. At this point I feel bad for Molly because this is not what Sherlock needs - Sherlock needs someone who inspires him, someone who will just talk until they say something that will give Sherlock the final breakthrough. And this person is John. It’s here that we realize that it’s still John Sherlock wants to be out with, and his subconscious is telling him (and us) so.

When they go visiting Train Guy they seem to be in pretty high spirits, fooling around and just being a couple of adorable dorks. I like that very much. This leads me to believe that they went on several more cases between the crime scene and this one, and have therefore gotten closer and more familiar with each other.

After he orders ALL the maps, Sherlock then invites Molly out for dinner, echoing her wish from earlier that day. He asks her without looking her in the eye and I noticed that he seemed slightly awkward as he passed her by on the stairs. Molly seems tired. And then he says something very sweet.

“Moriarty slipped up, he made a mistake. It was the one person he thought didn’t matter at all to me, was the one person who mattered the most. You made it all possible.”

He genuiley smiles when Molly talks about her boyfriend and wishes her happiness.
Yes. And in the next scene he is kissing (!!!) her on the cheek. This may be not the first time but this time it is less awkward and no fleeting excuse and for me it is just beautiful. I do so hope that we actually saw Sherlock discovering some feelings of romantic nature for her...
I know what most of you will say. That Sherlock is just being friendly because he appreciates her and maybe because he also feels bad for her and I won't disagree on that but I can dream, right?

And then the scene right after just kills me. Sherlock walks through the door and doesn't look back, there is snow and sadness all around with lovely music underlining the scene and it breaks my heart. She doesn’t follow him, instead going in the other direction after glancing at his retreating form, looking perfectly intent to move on and live her life. (Awww, she is so sweet with her pink handshoes.)

However, the fact that her boyfriend resembles Sherlock a lot is clear evidence that she is not over him. And maybe there is still hope for them...

...because one can love two people in different ways. John of course is his everything, the most important person in his life as he should be. Friendship is something incredibly important and valuable and should always come first. Being in love with someone feels different though. And I'm dying to know what it is with Sherlock and Molly...

LoveIsAViciousMotivator · January 5, 2014 8:11 pm

Besides Johnlock, I'm a Sherlolly shipper as well because after TEH, they are just so adorable together. Eeee! Makes me giggle inside! YEah, I know that they may never be on the show and that's okay. I do love the storyline of girl crushes on arrogant manchild who doesn't treat her well to finally, she stands up to herself and in the end, gets his respect and friendship. They may never be a couple, but the caring is there.

Still, it makes this Sherlolly shipper smile at all their scenes in TEH. XD And the fact that if Sherlock can't turn to John for something, he goes to Molly.

Last edited by LoveIsAViciousMotivator (January 5, 2014 8:13 pm)

NotYourHousekeeperDear · January 6, 2014 2:28 am

I think Sherlock calling Molly 'John' was a bit of a nail in the coffin for Sherlolly. Being mixed up with a male best friend is a little bit better than being called 'Mum' by the guy you have a crush on, but not much...

Davina · January 6, 2014 11:02 pm

Oh but you know Sherlock is oblivious when his mind is wrapped up in a case. What about John's trip to Dublin?!

Mary Me · January 7, 2014 12:19 am

NotYourHousekeeperDear wrote:
I think Sherlock calling Molly 'John' was a bit of a nail in the coffin for Sherlolly.

Not at all. Sherlock messes up names all the time. It's simply a habit.

besleybean · January 7, 2014 6:48 am

Oh I think it's important and mirrors Sherlock saying it in Reichenbach.
Sherlock only considers John as his side kick.
And another thing: there has never been or ever will be Sherlolly.
Molly has virtually known this after inviting Sherlock for coffee.
But she can't help being in love with him and I think she always will be.
Sherlock respects Molly as a colleague and loves her as a friend.

SherlocklivesinOH · January 21, 2014 12:41 am

I felt like, John was trying to "break up" with Sherlock, staying mad at him for faking his death, Sherlock needed someone to replace John. And everything going through his head indicating that he couldn't let go of John.

And Sherlock and Molly's conversation when it's revealed she's engaged plays like either a couple breaking up or a couple who HAVE broken up discussing how they're moving on. For Sherlock it's like, "I'm sorry,I tried, but you can't take John's place."

Or, if we want to be more innuendo-y about it, "It's just not as good with you as it is with John."

But he's rather nice about it.

But I agree that the "the person who mattered most" line teases Sherlolly. Because it does sound like Holmes is saying Molly is the person who matters most to him and the world. And I think that's at the heart of what John's really so mad about concerning the faked death: Sherlock picked someone ELSE to confide in. The person he was most emotionally intimate with (for Sherlock) was not John. And nicer to someone else.

Last edited by SherlocklivesinOH (January 21, 2014 12:42 am)

MahnSherlolly03 · January 21, 2014 12:55 am

SherlocklivesinOH wrote:
I felt like, John was trying to "break up" with Sherlock, staying mad at him for faking his death, Sherlock needed someone to replace John. And everything going through his head indicating that he couldn't let go of John.

And Sherlock and Molly's conversation when it's revealed she's engaged plays like either a couple breaking up or a couple who HAVE broken up discussing how they're moving on. For Sherlock it's like, "I'm sorry,I tried, but you can't take John's place."

Or, if we want to be more innuendo-y about it, "It's just not as good with you as it is with John."

But he's rather nice about it.

.

See, this is not my interprehtation. I think he wanted her to continue, but she said she couldn't. Of course, she wasn't what he wanted, she wasn't John, but I think he was willing to give it a go. He certainly wasn't the one to say "This just isn't gonna work," from what I remember. He asked her out, he intended to continue spending time in her company, maybe even to continue this particular arrangement of working together, and she turned him down. I think Sherlock wants her. I think whether or not Sherlolly happens is down to Molly.

I don't think she looks too happy about Tom. But maybe I'm seeing what I want to see.

besleybean · January 21, 2014 6:54 am

I dion't think she is.
But I also think she knew she was still in love with Sherlock..

saturnR · January 22, 2014 6:53 am

Shmolly Merlock Mollock Sherlly Mollerlock Sherlolly Mollysher Ollysh Mosh

Holmooper Molmes

Sherhoo Sherhooper Hoopersher Holmolly Mollolmes

tonnaree · January 22, 2014 2:06 pm

I think Molly "mattered" the most because she was the one best suited to help him with his plan. And because of what she did for him Sherlock has now added Molly to his short list of friends. But I don't think he wants her in that way.

He even says that him asking her to solve crimes with him that day was a way of saying "Thank you" for everything she did.

SherlocklivesinOH · January 25, 2014 12:59 am

I didn't think of it before: Sherlock didn't make Molly grieve his death, because she knew he wasn't dead, but there was a danger he could have gotten her hopes up falsely. Molly seems to have changed by TEH, I could see the Molly of Season 2 thinking, "I was the one he chose to help him! That means I'm the one he really cares about! We could still end up together." And yet, it kind of seems like the opposite happens, in that she does a better job of moving on from him during the Hiatus (despite having reason to believe he could come back) than John really does.

There is a more noticeable difference in how Sherlock treats Molly now (in TEH) than in how he treats John.

Last edited by SherlocklivesinOH (January 25, 2014 1:06 am)

spanisherlock · January 25, 2014 2:45 am

I love Molly, she's a great character!!! I'm sorry for her, but least they are good friends, something is better than nothing!

Last edited by spanisherlock (January 25, 2014 2:47 am)

SherlocklivesinOH · January 25, 2014 9:06 pm

Molly's maintaining a crush on Sherlock throughout Season 2, and really sticking her neck out for him (as someone pointed out, she's taking a HUGE risk professionally), kind of amazed me. Given the way he sometimes treats her, a more logical reaction would have been, "I'll save him the trouble of having to FAKE death."

But someone thought his taunting her about making Moriarty go crazy, ("You went out with him three times and he stole the crown jewels...etc...so I suggest for the sake of law and order you avoid relationships") was Sherlock-ese (Sherlockution?) for telling Molly not to date so he could have her all to himself.

Was the scenario where he swung through the window and kissed her HER fantasy? It seems like one she would have.

Last edited by SherlocklivesinOH (January 25, 2014 9:06 pm)

MahnSherlolly03 · January 25, 2014 10:09 pm

SherlocklivesinOH wrote:
Molly's maintaining a crush on Sherlock throughout Season 2, and really sticking her neck out for him (as someone pointed out, she's taking a HUGE risk professionally), kind of amazed me. Given the way he sometimes treats her, a more logical reaction would have been, "I'll save him the trouble of having to FAKE death."

But someone thought his taunting her about making Moriarty go crazy, ("You went out with him three times and he stole the crown jewels...etc...so I suggest for the sake of law and order you avoid relationships") was Sherlock-ese (Sherlockution?) for telling Molly not to date so he could have her all to himself.

Was the scenario where he swung through the window and kissed her HER fantasy? It seems like one she would have.

Molly's dedication to Sherlock has also been very surprising to me, especially considering that it's not just a question of "this is the guy I like/love so I'm going to help him." Molly seems to have a sweet and caring nature, and to be genuinely interested in people, above and beyond romantic attactments. She likes Sherlock, maybe even loves him, but in TRF, I think she proved to me that she just had a respect and love for humanity that surpassed her crush. Therefore, I believe Molly would continue to help Sherlock Holmes if and when her desire for a relationship with him ended. I love that. I thought she was gonna be a girl with a Voldytrix-esque crush as opposed to a real person, and I'm very happy with how her character has developed.

I wondered about that. I think it'd be OOC for Sherlock to be thinking anything along those lines directly, but who's to say that he didn't subconciously resent the idea of her dating anyone (besides him)?

The fantasy with the mask theory, including that frankly amazing kiss (why couldn't it be real?!), was all Anderson. Why he was fantasizing about Sherlock kissing his pathologist, we'll never know (fanservice!), but I bet Molly's had similar fantasies before. Probably without the window-smashing.

SherlocklivesinOH · January 25, 2014 10:37 pm

MahnSherlolly03 wrote:
SherlocklivesinOH wrote:
Molly's maintaining a crush on Sherlock throughout Season 2, and really sticking her neck out for him (as someone pointed out, she's taking a HUGE risk professionally), kind of amazed me. Given the way he sometimes treats her, a more logical reaction would have been, "I'll save him the trouble of having to FAKE death."

But someone thought his taunting her about making Moriarty go crazy, ("You went out with him three times and he stole the crown jewels...etc...so I suggest for the sake of law and order you avoid relationships") was Sherlock-ese (Sherlockution?) for telling Molly not to date so he could have her all to himself.

Was the scenario where he swung through the window and kissed her HER fantasy? It seems like one she would have.
Molly's dedication to Sherlock has also been very surprising to me, especially considering that it's not just a question of "this is the guy I like/love so I'm going to help him." Molly seems to have a sweet and caring nature, and to be genuinely interested in people, above and beyond romantic attactments. She likes Sherlock, maybe even loves him, but in TRF, I think she proved to me that she just had a respect and love for humanity that surpassed her crush. Therefore, I believe Molly would continue to help Sherlock Holmes if and when her desire for a relationship with him ended. I love that. I thought she was gonna be a girl with a Voldytrix-esque crush as opposed to a real person, and I'm very happy with how her character has developed.

I wondered about that. I think it'd be OOC for Sherlock to be thinking anything along those lines directly, but who's to say that he didn't subconciously resent the idea of her dating anyone (besides him)?

The fantasy with the mask theory, including that frankly amazing kiss (why couldn't it be real?!), was all Anderson. Why he was fantasizing about Sherlock kissing his pathologist, we'll never know (fanservice!), but I bet Molly's had similar fantasies before. Probably without the window-smashing.

And, as I said a couple of posts ago, she could have seen Sherlock's singling her out to help him as evidence that those fantasies could still come true.

besleybean · January 25, 2014 10:54 pm

I still think Molly now knows she has no chance with Sherlock, but she just cannot help loving him...I know how she feels!

Willow · January 25, 2014 11:43 pm

At the risk of going meta I would note that the window smashing might be a desirable feature of the fantasy

SherlocklivesinOH · January 26, 2014 1:00 am

Willow wrote:
At the risk of going meta I would note that the window smashing might be a desirable feature of the fantasy

I said before, it does sometimes seem like Molly, and also Irene, serve as stand-ins for female fans (particularly of Benedict) expressing their feelings.

Dr. Seem · February 5, 2014 2:10 pm

So, if I'm following correctly, when Sherlock needs a safe, restful place to decompress, protection or escape from the world, he goes to . . . Molly's bedroom. Keep in mind The Woman needed a bolt-hole, and went to Sherlock's bedroom, and now we know Sherlock uses Molly's bedroom for the same reason. If 10th grade Geometry serves, that may well create a "lurrrvve triangle". Congrats, Moffis! Pythagoras would be proud.

On another note, perhaps I'm thinking about this too hard . . . perhaps Sherlock lives the mantra "caring is not an advantage" as a means of solving crimes, as well as a means of protecting people, including himself. Is it possible he hides his feelings for Molly in order that no one knows what she means to him, and she is thereby "safe", as is he?

Finally, I perceived his rant at the Christmas party not as an unconscious decision to show off his skills, but prompted by jealousy from Molly getting all the attention. Sherlock is, we know, a drama queen, and he wanted to show off to his friends his insightful deductions about Molly . . . somewhat making it about himself, rather than Molly . . . and it turned out to be really about him.

Thanks for the space to rant.