Well, if you have to spend 11 hours on a plane, then I can recommend BA: I watched all 3 episodes of Season 3 of Sherlock, 12 years a Slave, The Desolation of Smaug, and, just for a change, Thor 2, which I would probably have understood better if I'd seen Thor 1.

Ok, time to get on the ship; my best wishes to all 

besleybean wrote:

But how do we know he wouldn't have returned to the army...if Sherlock hadn't intervened?
Might he have been invalided for psychological reasons?
Or possibly(as has been suggested)John wasn't aware of his need for adventure, until Mycroft so helpfully pointed it out to him.

 
Because John's inability to control his anger, and his prediliction for violence, aren't something the army wants; that's why he couldn't have returned to the army until he actually accepted those facts and worked to change them.

Three seasons later John still doesn't accept that he has a problem, which is not exactly the path the GMC would wish him to take

besleybean wrote:

I have no information on army rules about health and engagement etc.  My husband's nephew was invalided out of the arny, he was a lot younger than John and only a lorry driver.
Where on Earth do you get the idea that the adrenalin junkie is not in aired BBC Sherlock?
That's the whole thrust of Sherlock's discussion wirh John ' back at 221b', once Mary has been exposed.
John is addicted to danger and dangerous people.

Well, the army is desperate for doctors; they really bend over backwards to recruit them, and they bend over backwards to try to keep them. As Belis has noted, John's limp isn't a problem for an army GP sitting at his desk; that isn't a reason for invaliding him out.

Lorry drivers, on the other hand, are easy to recruit and easy to replace; the army isn't going to hang on to someone with health problems.

And I didn't say that John is not an adrenaline junkie; what I said was that the unaired pilot showing a really macho man of action raises questions as to why, if he's that much of a macho man of action, he isn't still in the action. They backed away from going completely overboard with it because it's precisely the sort of question which would have been very obvious to anyone who knew anything about adrenaline junkies, and, indeed the action...




 

belis wrote:

RavenMorganLeigh wrote:

What I'm waiting for John to get, really get-- is this-- acknowledging responsibility for his choices *empowers* him. It's not about blame. If he can do that, he can stop being so impulsive, violent, etc, . Therapy might actually work on him. IF he wants it to. Not if he sees himself as always having something done TO him. 

I couldn't agree more. Therapy isn't like surgery. You can't do it to someone. You can only do it with them. I hope in next season John will become ready for change.

I have been wondering about the 'why is everything always my fault' line; I'm not sure it's confined to the post meeting Sherlock era, in fact it may have something to do with why he was invalided out in the first place. The willingness to accept responsibility for your own choices is something which you need if you are going to make better choices in the future; the surgeon who takes credit for the successes but blames failures on other people isn't a good surgeon, and won't be a good surgeon until s/he accepts that s/he has to work harder...
 

besleybean wrote:

Well Sherlock knew what would happen to him, but felt John's peace of mind was worth it..

No. I really don't think Sherlock shot CAM because of John. I simply don't accept a reading of Sherlock predicated on the assumption that he would do murder just to give his best friend 'peace of mind'; it's an insult to Sherlock and an insult to John.
 

belis wrote:

anniea wrote:

But would sherlock and irene actually have sex if john wasn't there? It to me doesn't seem like the sort of thing sherlock would do. Mainly because he is so uptight with emotions and about showing his emotions to people, and would irene let her heart rule her head if she really did love him and be that weak?

Sex isn't always about emotions. I could see Sherlock being curious and intrigued leading to wanting to 'experiment' with Irene. lol I don't think they would jump straight at it though if John wasn't there to chaperone.
I don't think Irene  is in love with Sherlock. There is some attraction there, chemistry, maybe even fascination but I wouldn't call that love.

Neither would I; the question of what constitutes love is something Moftiss seem fascinated by...
 

They look utterly wonderful! And Happy Birthday too, when it arrives

I wouldn't worry, Stoertebeker; we're all confused by S3.

You make the very interesting point that, if HLV had come directly after TEH, John's behaviour would seem more comprehensible; I think perhaps Moftiss were a tad heavy handed in hitting us over the head with the fact that John, contrary to what Sherlock says about his relationship with Mary, isn't actually happy in his suburban wedded bliss.

And they do that before the big reveal of Mary's (possibly) former life, so there can be no doubt that it's the life and relationship now with Mary that's the problem, not the knowledge of her former life. We have been speculating about John's past, and wondering whether his propensity for going berserk is what led to his parting company with the Army, so I think his unwillingness to accept that he may be less than perfect himself is part and parcel of a larger problem.

John can be incredibly sweet and charming, but he can also behave with all the tact and discretion of a charging rhino, so he too is sending mixed messages; I can see that Sherlock has become a great deal more mature in S3, and I very much hope that John will do so in S4. I'm not at all sure how that might happen..

belis wrote:

tonnaree wrote:

Who wouldn't want to seek comfort in the arms of Sherlock?!?

I don't think many people would. lol Not even his close friends. I'm not quite sure if John not seeking physical comfort from Sherlock in the bomb scene is a reflection of the fact that he respects Sherlock's personal space, that he himself doesn't like to be comforted in that way or that their relationship wasn't recovered enough at that point. Maybe a combination of all three. The way he acted somehow fitted with the way I see John operate.

To be honest I just can't quite see Sherlock trying to comfort someone by hugging them. It's not quite how he rolls. I would imagine him giving comfort from safe distance, something along the lines off:



To get back to the topic.  I would like to see John become a little bit more in touch with his own feelings in season 4 so that he can move on and grow as a character.
 

But Sherlock did say 'I'm sorry, forgive me' to Molly, when he realised what he had done to her, and he kissed her. The movement towards her came from Sherlock, and I do think that he was trying to comfort her. No brushes were damaged in the filming of that scene

Returning to John, I too would like him to move forward; I'm fairly sure that he is in touch with his feelings. It's just that his feelings are somewhat unhelpful in the context of being a grown up; being in touch with your inner child is all very well, but at some point one has to leave the terrible twos behind and put on your game face...


 

QuiteExtraordinary wrote:

besleybean wrote:

I think it's fairly true to say Sherlock's only ever been distracted(in gender times) by females. He also chose to prerend to have a girlfriend, not a boyfriend.
He has kissed 4(I think) females in the show.

Yes, but apart from the (fake) Janine kiss they were all platonic kisses. Really cute ones though.

One thing I currently have a problem with is people implying that Sherlock and John are openly in love with each other already and aware of it. Don't get me wrong, I still think it's a cute idea that they might fall in love at some point in the future, but that it's just a possibility at the moment that only exists subconsciously. Lately, especially on tumblr of course, I've seen many people practically trying to force everyone else to believe that S3 is some kind of musical-worthy unrequited love plot in which Sherlock is openly pining for John and jealous because of John's relationship with Mary. For example, that in the "best man" scene Sherlock didn't fall silent because he was overwhelmed, but because he was so disappointed that he had to be the best friend instead of the boyfriend. And so forth. Well, you can possibly view it that way but I have to say I find it awful. It would ruin some of the best moments for me and turn the show into something I really don't like.

 
I sympathise; I have more or less given up looking for interesting stuff to read because it's inundated with people who believe that Sherlock is a romance, and therefore ignore around 90% of the show. Given the extraordinary efforts that everybody makes, from Moftiss to the directors and the actors and all the people who work behind the scenes, I feel that they deserve better than that; I don't want to reduce it to boy meets boy, boy loses boy, boy reunites with boy.

Not least because it's really boring...