Preceja wrote:

RavenMorganLeigh wrote:

So, basically-- if Sherlock, feeling put upon, finally beats and kicks John-- till he's bleeding and spitting blood (same as John beating Sherlock) , that would be fine? Just two guys roughhousing? Just trying to be clear.
 

If they are acting under some mutual agreement  yes, given that not both of them are unable to control. Here Sherlock would better immobilize John (he is big enough and strong enough to do it) and wait till he calms down or  he would  call help. If only he wanted.
It is stupid but it happens and participants are able to deal with it and get out of it without any permanent harm to their bodies mind or friendship.  .

Errr-- if it's okay for John to beat Sherlock until he's spitting blood, then it ought to be just fine for Sherlock to do the same. While not resisting, as Sherlock did. John-- shouldn't try to defend himself, just like Sherlock allowed John to punch, and kick Sherlock-- even when he was on the ground. And if John's ill, or sick or something-- that doesn't matter. What's good for the goose...
 

Preceja wrote:

RavenMorganLeigh wrote:

That's not what bothers me. It's that fact that some people love John Watson so much that they are willing to sweep this under the rug and thereby invalidate the experiences of those who are the survivors of abuse-- in order to "Protect John Watson At All Costs". 

Sorry-- I got a little heavy. Hey, TFP may make all of this a moot point. I hope so!
 

You are really not unbiased.
The first and big mistake in my opinion is to use word abuse here. If we understand it as you have described and not every hit between two boys, every fight after which participants are having beer together and forget it while people here  would acuse one or another how hard hurt the other one and how irremediable consequencies is it going to have.

There is no way how to apply abuse on the relationship of John and Sherlock. 

It is funny how we are able to judge feelings and intentions from gestures and expressions of Martin and Benedict. How far we got based on only actors. It is clear how incredibly good they are. 

Serious question; do you think that if it's two men, abuse is not a word that should ever be used to describe a situation where one perpetrates violence against the other? To my mind, if the word abuse is a problem, then maybe assault is more appropriate? 

nakahara wrote:

RavenMorganLeigh wrote:

I keep seeing people go on about mental manipulation/abuse as being worse than physical abuse: and I think many don't get this fact: Physical abuse is also mental abuse and manipulation: it's terrorizing someone. It's intimidation. It's forcing someone to constantly gauge the other person's mood, lest they be on the receiving end of that person's rage. It's constantly changing your behavior to fit someone else's expectations, their moods, their values, their opinions... suddenly, you have no agency of your own-- everything depends on what your abuser thinks of you at any given moment. That can depend on what they had for breakfast, whether they got the job, if they blame you for something you didn't do-- because you're the automatic whipping boy. 

Physical abuse IS emotional and mental abuse, with the added bonus of visible, tangible scars to carry with you for the rest of your life. 

It destroys your ability to trust someone, anyone-- to not hurt you. 
 

BIG APPLAUSE.

 (((BLUSH!!!))))
(Curtsy)

nakahara wrote:

Dumai wrote:

.... its so strange that he somehow wants Sherlock to help him when John himself cant even apologize.

Thank you, its very true.
I might add that next to his inability to apologise, he also cannot say "thank you.".
Sherlock shot CAM to keep him and Mary safe - and was willing to go to death mission to atone for that. And did we hear any thanks from John for Sherlock´s self-sacrifice? Not a word.
 

Yep..

This Is The Phantom Lady wrote:

I will admit I've not read all of this thread, and I try to stay away... because damn, it triggers me. 

I will never forgive John for this. And it's not just about the scene where he kicks Sherlock when hes literally lying down. 

The last Baker Street scene... Sherlock stuttering; him trying to keep John sweet and praising him for making the deduction. I recognized something in that. Something I never wanted to see 

I am aware that there's a huge chance Benedict was playing Sherlock as going through withdrawals and being vulnerable... but I saw more. 

(as ever I'm over-sharing... so forgive me)

But I saw an abuse victim. I saw the nervous jitters... the fear of it happening again... the need to praise the other person, the fear that any word, any movement you make trigger them; trying not to remind them that they went too far with you... that something you do was what caused it to happen in the first place (which is so not true). 



Like I said, I might be looking too deep... but this is what I saw

People are acting like real beatings never happen in real life. Phantom, I think you get it-- and I do too, from first-hand experience. 
 

nakahara wrote:

NoShipSherlock wrote:

I don't think this is a repeated pattern of abuse, I think it was a one time event and as I stated above, used as a plot device to break both men so they could reconcile.   

I wonder about that. Because I think there were signs in the show that John´s prevalence for violence is a bit not good - in numerous episodes.

Here are some examples of John´s physical and verbal attacks on other people. The first attact was directly provoked by Sherlock, but what about all the other stuff?
















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