The Ashtray scene - I think Americans (as a whole, certainly there will be exceptions) may not appreciate the humour behind 'nicking' something from the Palace. The Palace would not hold the same significance for them as it does for people who have grown up in a Commonwealth country.

Asking for a lighter & leaving out the deduction that the 'Employer' smoked - again, they would not see it in the same light as we would (The Sovereign smokes? OMG!) Certainly that is a scandal to 'us'; I doubt similar would raise a ripple in the US.

The 'sex' mention - There are certainly BIG differences in UK & USA thinking on this topic, so not surprising really. I could go on with this one for ages but i'd wander off topic somewhere lol.

And on it goes with the others.
I can't see those scenes having a huge impact on being left out; rather more so would be that the Americans didn't find those parts as interesting/meaningful.

I think there was always going to be some disregard for the original product by the Americans. It doesn't surprise me that they would take a masterpiece and chop it to fit their frame. Sad though that they believe they have that right. It's not as if ANYTHING made in their country has had such a high quality finish.

kazza474 wrote:

I think there was always going to be some disregard for the original product by the Americans. It doesn't surprise me that they would take a masterpiece and chop it to fit their frame. Sad though that they believe they have that right. It's not as if ANYTHING made in their country has had such a high quality finish.

Someone pointed out on another message board that I visit that Sue Vertue confirmed during a U.S.-based Sherlock promotional event that it is the show's British production company, Hartswood Films, that cuts a program for international broadcast, so I guess how it actually works is that PBS (the public broadcasting network in the United States) says, "we have 85 minutes to fill, send us something to air within the allotted time," and the production company delivers a product.

Also, hey there now:  Americans produce a lot of quality television programs--a whole, whole lot of crap (enough for a lifetime, far too much ;-) ), but a lot of quality programs, too.

It is interesting that many of the scenes that were cut relate to Sherlock's relationships/ sexuality, Sherlock Holmes.  I'm not sure whether that was intentional with an eye toward thinking that the PBS audience (or a general assumption that the American audience) would be more conservative, but it does come across that way.  Incidentally, their cutting the entire Jeanette scene avoided the problem of John saying "shit" to Mycroft on the phone.  I don't think that could have aired on PBS in the U.S. (at least not before 10 PM).

The only shame in cutting the "asking for the lighter scene" is that it explains how John sets off the smoke alarm at Irene's home.

I do think stealing an ashtray from Buckingham Palace plays pretty much the same over here:  practically everyone is familiar with Buckingham Palace and can pretty easily draw the analogy that it is like stealing something from the White House.  What probably didn't play to full comedic effect over here, as was pointed out in another thread, is John asking Sherlock whether he is wearing any pants.  Since "pants" means "trousers" here, it is very hard to hear that line and not just think that John is asking Sherlock whether he is wearing trousers.

Last edited by LaconicLurker (May 8, 2012 9:19 am)

kazza474 wrote:

And the pants one, you've completely lost me on. Should be received perfectly fine; I don't see a problem with it.

It's not that I think it was received poorly or that the humor was completely lost here, just that if you subscribe to a theory of comedy that hilarity = being relatively more undressed, then it is funnier to think of Sherlock being completely naked underneath that sheet than it is to think of him not wearing trousers but having on pants (or "underwear" in the U.S.).  And someone in the U.S. might think the latter due to the terminology we use here.

kazza474 wrote:

As for WHO edits the show, that doesn't really matter. What matters is that those scenes were known to be ones that the Americans wouldn't care too much about.

Well, I actually don't know that there is a deeper meaning behind cutting those particular scenes or some motivation that the Americans would not care about those scenes - like you say, the episode can stand on its own without the additional insight into Sherlock's character that they provide.  For example, John asking Mrs. Hudson whether Sherlock had ever had a significant other is already duplicated by Irene "indelicately" asking Sherlock whether he has ever "had anyone" and her repeating Moriarty's nickname of "the virgin."  I somewhat contradict my previous post by saying this, but I don't necessarily think that the cut scenes were eliminated to play to some perceived American bias.

kazza474 wrote:

And please, step back & see the real picture everyone. DO you REALLY believe those scenes give a 'big insight' into anything ??

A big insight?  No.  Nice moments that it is too bad the American audience didn't get to see?  Perhaps.  I don't think it ruins the episode, but hey, if we are all fans of the show enough to write about it on a message board, then isn't it interesting to compare notes about what individual scenes mean to the overall story?  The Jeanette scene shows exactly where Sherlock ranks on John's list of priorities:  it's a nice moment.

kazza474 wrote:

Well we can agree to disagree on the 'quality' coming out of the US. I've seen nothing that I'd call beautifully shot / artistic/ quality. If there are any, please pop a review of them on the forum & perhaps point out the artistic, beautiful side.

Well, fair enough, but if you're talking about shows known for their cinematography, writing, costuming and direction, current and past American-produced shows like Lost, Mad Men, Boardwalk Empire and Breaking Bad have been recognized for such.  (A new series of Mad Men is airing the U.S. right now, and you should see people dissect the deeper meaning of shots and framing in that show on message boards in a way that would make any obsessed Sherlock fan proud.)  Sherlock happens to be my personal favorite show of the past, say, 5-7 years or so, but I think any of the others on this list can stand alongside Sherlock from a quality perspective.

Last edited by LaconicLurker (May 8, 2012 10:38 am)

It is a shame that any old the episodes have to be cut but time slots require it. Al least Hartswood did the cutting, though from the PBS interview it is clear that Benedict hates the very thought. The deleted scenes are not integral for the story although they all add something. In all filming shots and sometimes whole scenes end up on the cutting room floor. This nearly always pains actors as it is part of themselves that is disposed of- even worse if it is the only scene a particular actor may have been in! Hopefully many American viewers will buy the DVDs and be ale to watch the films in their entirety.

Worse by far, on much of American/Canadian and commercial stations here, is the constant ointerruption of programmes for 'commercial breaks'. One thing I absolutely LOVE about Sherlock being shown on BBC is there are no such interruptions.

I've just been making my today's first deduction:

According to Sue Vertue they cut bits that were not "essential" to the story.
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/sherlock-holmes-and-the-mystery-of-the-missing-eight-minutes-7738001.html

Consequently, we have to watch the PBS Reichenbach episode carefully with regard to the cut scenes – everything that will be omitted there can't be relevant concerning the question how Sherlock faked his death.

Last edited by tobeornot221b (May 12, 2012 5:42 am)

The DVD release in the US will be the full, uncut version. Steven Moffat has confirmed this in a Tweet.

Cutting the smile out of the Mona Lisa (La Giaconda).
Cutting the Witches scene and the murder of Duncan from Macbeth.
Cutting the head off Michelangelo's David.
Cutting Beethoven's 9th symphony. It's fine with just the other eight! (Not quite 10%).

Plus I suppose you could just leave out all the silly twiddly bits from any of Gustav Klimt's work!

sherlockskitty wrote:

I've got the season 2  versions  dvd  just today--  and so  far,  SCANDAL  DOES  have ALL  of the deleted scenes in there  that were cut!!   so----get the dvd and ENJOY!!!

Oh, my dear... I have enjoyed the DVDs for a long time now 
Be careful. Having them means that any time you feel like watching something you will end up doing it. I think I have watched TRF more than ten times by now 

sherlockskitty wrote:

...at first I had no idea that PBS  cut scenes out,  until I saw  the shows  online  and heard ppl complaining here and elsewhere.  so  I  just HAD to get the dvds.

Me too (Series 2 viz), though mine haven't arrived yet.
The fire starting did seem to come out of nowhere (well, it did if that scene was cut) - I put it down to clever writing! What do I know? Sigh.
I put Disc1 of the first series in my DVD player so many times the little plastic circle bit in the middle cracked and fell off on of one side. I have to be very careful to reconstruct it when loading it into my computer (after my DVD player died in service, so to speak).