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May 7, 2012 10:47 pm  #1


Scenes Cut From U.S. Broadcast

Last night, public television in the United States (finally) started airing series 2.  I had already purchased the series 2 DVDs from Amazon UK (as if I could wait), but I did watch the PBS airing, too.  The production company cut some scenes--done, I suppose, to make the show fit in the Masterpiece Mystery! timeslot on PBS, which is shorter than the 90 full minutes.  Scenes that I noticed were cut:

- Everything about the ashtray (John mentioning that he had an urge to steal one and Sherlock actually stealing it)
- Sherlock telling Mycroft's palace friend that he would need "some equipment," subsequently reduced to his assertion that he simply needs the lighter of the man's employer
- Mycroft and Sherlock's exchange:  "Don't be alarmed; it's to do with sex." / "Sex doesn't alarm me." / "How would you know?"
- John asking Mrs. Hudson whether Sherlock had ever had a relationship before
- Jeanette breaking up with John in its entirety (including her sarcastic, "It's heartwarming: you would do anything for him.")
- A few other lines here and there: like a couple lines from Mycroft's conversation with the boys at Baker Street, and a couple of John's lines to the woman whom he thinks is with Mycroft but is actually with Irene

I think some of these scenes shed a lot of light on Sherlock's relationship with John, and so I think it was too bad that they were cut, e.g., seeing John prioritize Sherlock way, way ahead of Jeannete.  Any thoughts on whether the absence of the cut scenes substantially detract from the episode or not?  The ashtray scene is one of my favorites from the entire show--series 1 or 2, and so I was particularly sorry to see that one go.

Last edited by LaconicLurker (May 7, 2012 10:49 pm)

 

May 7, 2012 11:04 pm  #2


Re: Scenes Cut From U.S. Broadcast

Why they don't show it like a 2 hours movie ? It what they do in Canada, so they don't have to cut.
It's sad they cut so much, they are funny and interesting scenes !


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May 8, 2012 5:40 am  #3


Re: Scenes Cut From U.S. Broadcast

The Ashtray scene - I think Americans (as a whole, certainly there will be exceptions) may not appreciate the humour behind 'nicking' something from the Palace. The Palace would not hold the same significance for them as it does for people who have grown up in a Commonwealth country.

Asking for a lighter & leaving out the deduction that the 'Employer' smoked - again, they would not see it in the same light as we would (The Sovereign smokes? OMG!) Certainly that is a scandal to 'us'; I doubt similar would raise a ripple in the US.

The 'sex' mention - There are certainly BIG differences in UK & USA thinking on this topic, so not surprising really. I could go on with this one for ages but i'd wander off topic somewhere lol.

And on it goes with the others.
I can't see those scenes having a huge impact on being left out; rather more so would be that the Americans didn't find those parts as interesting/meaningful.

I think there was always going to be some disregard for the original product by the Americans. It doesn't surprise me that they would take a masterpiece and chop it to fit their frame. Sad though that they believe they have that right. It's not as if ANYTHING made in their country has had such a high quality finish.


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--Mark Gatiss

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Robert McCloskey
 

May 8, 2012 7:03 am  #4


Re: Scenes Cut From U.S. Broadcast

I can understand them leaving out the ashtray and Sherlock's deductions about the man and his employer. Whilst it's an amusing scene and one of my favourites, technically it doesn't actually push the plot along any further, just gives us an extra example of Sherlock's skills.

But these three scenes you mentioned:

- Mycroft and Sherlock's exchange:  "Don't be alarmed; it's to do with sex." / "Sex doesn't alarm me." / "How would you know?"
- John asking Mrs. Hudson whether Sherlock had ever had a relationship before
- Jeanette breaking up with John in its entirety (including her sarcastic, "It's heartwarming: you would do anything for him.")

I really do think they give us a big insight into Sherlock's character and personality, as well as Sherlock & John's relationship to each other and I think it's such a shame they were left out. Having said that, it doesn't really surprise me that the Americans cut those scenes, and it wouldn't surprise me if they cut similar scenes that mentioned relationships/sex/insinuations of being gay...sometimes they really can be quite prudish and old fashioned...

The part where John and Mrs Hudson discuss Sherlock's previous relationships or lack of them I feel IS particularly important to the plot, because it makes it all the more fascinating that he is so interested in Irene Adler.


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May 8, 2012 9:14 am  #5


Re: Scenes Cut From U.S. Broadcast

kazza474 wrote:

I think there was always going to be some disregard for the original product by the Americans. It doesn't surprise me that they would take a masterpiece and chop it to fit their frame. Sad though that they believe they have that right. It's not as if ANYTHING made in their country has had such a high quality finish.

Someone pointed out on another message board that I visit that Sue Vertue confirmed during a U.S.-based Sherlock promotional event that it is the show's British production company, Hartswood Films, that cuts a program for international broadcast, so I guess how it actually works is that PBS (the public broadcasting network in the United States) says, "we have 85 minutes to fill, send us something to air within the allotted time," and the production company delivers a product.

Also, hey there now:  Americans produce a lot of quality television programs--a whole, whole lot of crap (enough for a lifetime, far too much ;-) ), but a lot of quality programs, too.

It is interesting that many of the scenes that were cut relate to Sherlock's relationships/ sexuality, Sherlock Holmes.  I'm not sure whether that was intentional with an eye toward thinking that the PBS audience (or a general assumption that the American audience) would be more conservative, but it does come across that way.  Incidentally, their cutting the entire Jeanette scene avoided the problem of John saying "shit" to Mycroft on the phone.  I don't think that could have aired on PBS in the U.S. (at least not before 10 PM).

The only shame in cutting the "asking for the lighter scene" is that it explains how John sets off the smoke alarm at Irene's home.

I do think stealing an ashtray from Buckingham Palace plays pretty much the same over here:  practically everyone is familiar with Buckingham Palace and can pretty easily draw the analogy that it is like stealing something from the White House.  What probably didn't play to full comedic effect over here, as was pointed out in another thread, is John asking Sherlock whether he is wearing any pants.  Since "pants" means "trousers" here, it is very hard to hear that line and not just think that John is asking Sherlock whether he is wearing trousers.

Last edited by LaconicLurker (May 8, 2012 9:19 am)

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May 8, 2012 9:45 am  #6


Re: Scenes Cut From U.S. Broadcast

Well we can agree to disagree on the 'quality' coming out of the US. I've seen nothing that I'd call beautifully shot / artistic/ quality. If there are any, please pop a review of them on the forum & perhaps point out the artistic, beautiful side.

As for WHO edits the show, that doesn't really matter. What matters is that those scenes were known to be ones that the Americans wouldn't care too much about. The final product answers to THEIR whims and shows the biases of the American Entertainment industry. I'm in 2 frames of mind on this:
1. Is it sad that these things would be of lesser interest & hence disposable to the Americans?
2. Is it more sadder that these biases are so well known?

The only shame in cutting the "asking for the lighter scene" is that it explains how John sets off the smoke alarm at Irene's home.

Well that certainly proves the point; that one went straight through to the keeper!

And the pants one, you've completely lost me on. Should be received perfectly fine; I don't see a problem with it.


it doesn't really surprise me that the Americans cut those scenes, and it wouldn't surprise me if they cut similar scenes that mentioned relationships/sex/insinuations of being gay...sometimes they really can be quite prudish and old fashioned...

It goes far deeper than old fashioned; as a whole the USA is homophobic even in this day & age. (Please don't get me started on that topic!)



And please, step back & see the real picture everyone. DO you REALLY believe those scenes give a 'big insight' into anything ??
Every little scene, shot , prop, 'bit part actor' seems to be 'crucial' to the overall series through the eyes of over zealous fans lately. Be realistic, these scenes could easily be left out & have no effect on the story telling. It just misses out some giggles really.


____________________________________________________________________________________________
Also, please note that sentences can also end in full stops. The exclamation mark can be overused.
Sherlock Holmes 28 March 13:08

Mycroft’s popularity doesn’t surprise me at all. He is, after all, incredibly beautiful, clever and well-dressed. And beautiful. Did I mention that?
--Mark Gatiss

"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I’m not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert McCloskey
 

May 8, 2012 10:19 am  #7


Re: Scenes Cut From U.S. Broadcast

kazza474 wrote:

And the pants one, you've completely lost me on. Should be received perfectly fine; I don't see a problem with it.

It's not that I think it was received poorly or that the humor was completely lost here, just that if you subscribe to a theory of comedy that hilarity = being relatively more undressed, then it is funnier to think of Sherlock being completely naked underneath that sheet than it is to think of him not wearing trousers but having on pants (or "underwear" in the U.S.).  And someone in the U.S. might think the latter due to the terminology we use here.

kazza474 wrote:

As for WHO edits the show, that doesn't really matter. What matters is that those scenes were known to be ones that the Americans wouldn't care too much about.

Well, I actually don't know that there is a deeper meaning behind cutting those particular scenes or some motivation that the Americans would not care about those scenes - like you say, the episode can stand on its own without the additional insight into Sherlock's character that they provide.  For example, John asking Mrs. Hudson whether Sherlock had ever had a significant other is already duplicated by Irene "indelicately" asking Sherlock whether he has ever "had anyone" and her repeating Moriarty's nickname of "the virgin."  I somewhat contradict my previous post by saying this, but I don't necessarily think that the cut scenes were eliminated to play to some perceived American bias.

kazza474 wrote:

And please, step back & see the real picture everyone. DO you REALLY believe those scenes give a 'big insight' into anything ??

A big insight?  No.  Nice moments that it is too bad the American audience didn't get to see?  Perhaps.  I don't think it ruins the episode, but hey, if we are all fans of the show enough to write about it on a message board, then isn't it interesting to compare notes about what individual scenes mean to the overall story?  The Jeanette scene shows exactly where Sherlock ranks on John's list of priorities:  it's a nice moment.

kazza474 wrote:

Well we can agree to disagree on the 'quality' coming out of the US. I've seen nothing that I'd call beautifully shot / artistic/ quality. If there are any, please pop a review of them on the forum & perhaps point out the artistic, beautiful side.

Well, fair enough, but if you're talking about shows known for their cinematography, writing, costuming and direction, current and past American-produced shows like Lost, Mad Men, Boardwalk Empire and Breaking Bad have been recognized for such.  (A new series of Mad Men is airing the U.S. right now, and you should see people dissect the deeper meaning of shots and framing in that show on message boards in a way that would make any obsessed Sherlock fan proud.)  Sherlock happens to be my personal favorite show of the past, say, 5-7 years or so, but I think any of the others on this list can stand alongside Sherlock from a quality perspective.

Last edited by LaconicLurker (May 8, 2012 10:38 am)

     Thread Starter
 

May 8, 2012 11:33 am  #8


Re: Scenes Cut From U.S. Broadcast

In my opinion, there are quality shows from the US; as LaconicLurker said, Mad Men is a great example. I also enjoy most of the HBO shows, like Rome, Bored to death, Six Feet Under or Game of Thrones. In fact, I consider Six Feet Under one of the best things ever done in TV. But that's just my opinion, of course. None of them can be compared to Sherlock (as none of them can be compared to each other) because the spirit of each one is drastically different. I can't choose between any of them, I really can't. They're all great. And they are American, yes.
I love BBC's shows too, not just Sherlock. I've always been a huge fan of Spooks, Doctor Who or Life on Mars, to say some of my favorites.
What I can't really get through is Spanish TV. That's bad quality, believe me. America's worst show would be better than any of the Spanish TV shows.


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May 8, 2012 11:49 am  #9


Re: Scenes Cut From U.S. Broadcast

It is a shame that any old the episodes have to be cut but time slots require it. Al least Hartswood did the cutting, though from the PBS interview it is clear that Benedict hates the very thought. The deleted scenes are not integral for the story although they all add something. In all filming shots and sometimes whole scenes end up on the cutting room floor. This nearly always pains actors as it is part of themselves that is disposed of- even worse if it is the only scene a particular actor may have been in! Hopefully many American viewers will buy the DVDs and be ale to watch the films in their entirety.

Worse by far, on much of American/Canadian and commercial stations here, is the constant ointerruption of programmes for 'commercial breaks'. One thing I absolutely LOVE about Sherlock being shown on BBC is there are no such interruptions.


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May 8, 2012 11:53 pm  #10


Re: Scenes Cut From U.S. Broadcast

Yes I agree with those here who have said the scenes were cut to fit time contraints on US television. I don't think it had anything to do with whether a US audience would "get" them (although that may have played a part) but more about where they can cut out X amount of time and not lose any of the plot & story narrative for the episode.


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May 12, 2012 5:42 am  #11


Re: Scenes Cut From U.S. Broadcast

I've just been making my today's first deduction:

According to Sue Vertue they cut bits that were not "essential" to the story.
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/sherlock-holmes-and-the-mystery-of-the-missing-eight-minutes-7738001.html

Consequently, we have to watch the PBS Reichenbach episode carefully with regard to the cut scenes – everything that will be omitted there can't be relevant concerning the question how Sherlock faked his death.

Last edited by tobeornot221b (May 12, 2012 5:42 am)


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May 12, 2012 12:54 pm  #12


Re: Scenes Cut From U.S. Broadcast

Ooo smart!


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May 12, 2012 8:16 pm  #13


Re: Scenes Cut From U.S. Broadcast

The DVD release in the US will be the full, uncut version. Steven Moffat has confirmed this in a Tweet.


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May 13, 2012 7:34 pm  #14


Re: Scenes Cut From U.S. Broadcast

Nice article,  "to our American cousins...condolences"
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/05/13/pbs-cut-minutes-from-series-of-sherlock-make-room-for-adverts/

Eight minutes of a 90 minute episode constitutes just under 10% of the overall material, which means that the majority of the episodes will still be shown. Will those eight lost minutes really make much of a difference? To find out, let’s try cutting 10% of the material from a few other art forms. The loss is roughly the equivalent of:

    Cutting The Merry Wives of Windsor, The Tempest, Julius Caesar, the boring “talky  bits of Hamlet and a few dozen sonnets from the collected works of Shakespeare.
    Cutting the screaming face from Edvard Munch’s The Scream.
    Cutting Eleanor Rigby out of the Beatles album Revolver.
    Cutting the glazing off a Krispy Kreme donut.


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John: "Have you spoken to Mycroft, Molly, uh, anyone?"
Mrs Hudson: "They don’t matter. You do."


I BELIEVE IN SERIES 5!
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May 13, 2012 9:06 pm  #15


Re: Scenes Cut From U.S. Broadcast

Cutting the smile out of the Mona Lisa (La Giaconda).
Cutting the Witches scene and the murder of Duncan from Macbeth.
Cutting the head off Michelangelo's David.
Cutting Beethoven's 9th symphony. It's fine with just the other eight! (Not quite 10%).

Plus I suppose you could just leave out all the silly twiddly bits from any of Gustav Klimt's work!


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May 22, 2012 9:43 pm  #16


Re: Scenes Cut From U.S. Broadcast

I've got the season 2  versions  dvd  just today--  and so  far,  SCANDAL  DOES  have ALL  of the deleted scenes in there  that were cut!!   so----get the dvd and ENJOY!!!


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SHERLOCK!!!!!!
 

May 22, 2012 10:43 pm  #17


Re: Scenes Cut From U.S. Broadcast

sherlockskitty wrote:

I've got the season 2  versions  dvd  just today--  and so  far,  SCANDAL  DOES  have ALL  of the deleted scenes in there  that were cut!!   so----get the dvd and ENJOY!!!

Oh, my dear... I have enjoyed the DVDs for a long time now 
Be careful. Having them means that any time you feel like watching something you will end up doing it. I think I have watched TRF more than ten times by now 


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Waiting for a crazy man in a blue box to fall from the sky...

But the thing is, we've taken away all the things that can possibly have happened, so I suppose the only thing that's left, even though it seems really weird, must be the thing that did happen, in fact. (Miss Marple)

http://lavellesmiscellany.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/irene-adler.jpg?w=490&h=200&crop=1
 

May 24, 2012 6:03 am  #18


Re: Scenes Cut From U.S. Broadcast

well at first I had no idea that PBS  cut scenes out,  until I saw  the shows  online  and heard ppl complaining here and elsewhere.  so  I  just HAD to get the dvds.  you're right,  they ARE  addictive.  I've seen study in pink at least 6 times now.   And...right now,  I can't bear to watch TRF  because it's soooo sad......


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May 25, 2012 2:49 am  #19


Re: Scenes Cut From U.S. Broadcast

sherlockskitty wrote:

...at first I had no idea that PBS  cut scenes out,  until I saw  the shows  online  and heard ppl complaining here and elsewhere.  so  I  just HAD to get the dvds.

Me too (Series 2 viz), though mine haven't arrived yet.
The fire starting did seem to come out of nowhere (well, it did if that scene was cut) - I put it down to clever writing! What do I know? Sigh.
I put Disc1 of the first series in my DVD player so many times the little plastic circle bit in the middle cracked and fell off on of one side. I have to be very careful to reconstruct it when loading it into my computer (after my DVD player died in service, so to speak).


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May 25, 2012 5:46 am  #20


Re: Scenes Cut From U.S. Broadcast

Oh  NO!!!    that shud not have happened!!  I  hope you can fix it somehow.   It's not fun,  watching dvd's on a computer or a laptop.


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