Liberty wrote:

I'm actually going to put my money on not fake, and not mind palace (although I can't be sure!).  I think this is just the lead-in to the more meaty stuff.  Some lightness and banter. 

Well, I hope you're right about this only being the start before things are getting to be "Sherlock" again.
If this should turn out to be a real scene in the show, I hope they only did this so it's been dealt with. Because although we're only talking about 30 seconds here, those 30 seconds to me feel too ordinary, too conventional and quite frankly: boring.
 

kgreen20 wrote:

Check this out, everyone!

http://pbstv.tumblr.com/

Every time I've checked out the Sherlock series on Netflix, TAB has been left out.  Whether that's changed as of now remains to be seen; it's been a while since I've last been on there.

 

There is so much to discuss!

I thought this answer about Molly was interesting:
She has had a love interest. She was engaged and it didn’t work out. That doesn’t rule out the possibility of happiness later on, but life is full of surprises. Some good, some bad.

Maybe reading too much into it, but it suggests ..."surprises"?  Especially bad ones, I think.

I also can't stop myself taking seriously Steven's answer to the question about his favourite villain of S4 - the answer was Sherlock Holmes.  I have wondered if Sherlock might have a (temporarily, of course) villainous role in TFP.  Well, either him or his twin.


 

SolarSystem wrote:

Liberty wrote:

I'm actually going to put my money on not fake, and not mind palace (although I can't be sure!).  I think this is just the lead-in to the more meaty stuff.  Some lightness and banter. 

Well, I hope you're right about this only being the start before things are getting to be "Sherlock" again.
If this should turn out to be a real scene in the show, I hope they only did this so it's been dealt with. Because although we're only talking about 30 seconds here, those 30 seconds to me feel too ordinary, too conventional and quite frankly: boring.
 

I can see why some members of the audience would consider it lightness and banter. But for me the scene is the embodiment everything that didn´t work for me in S3 and that is even more pronounced here:

- Mary inserting herself into the case. With the subtility of the bulldozer.
- Although she has a work and home of her own, she also sticks her child into the case of the man she has nothing in common with (considering she shot him into the chest callously). 
- The obvious message: these men are so stupid, they can´t do anything by themself and need the superfemale to solve things for them.
- John being reduced to the third wheel.
- John being belittled by Sherlock in favour of the person who had shown in HLV that she doesn´t value Sherlock´s life one bit. John´s loyalty and friendship are being dismissed because Sherlock values some random murderer more than him.
- Mary´s past of the murderous assassin in being reffered to as if it was a job of a Sunday School teacher.
- HLV is obviously retconned and has no consequences to Mary - Sherlock relations now. What is one little murderous shooting between friends, huh?

Very disappointed with this scene. And yes, I think the scene is real, the scene with the bloodhound Toby will obviously follow this, IMHO.
 

SolarSystem wrote:

Because seriously: They can't be serious, right?

But they are, unfortunately. 
 

And I'd rather have villain Sherlock than uncle Sherlock...

I wonder if they've just created scenes like this, where it's all light and funny (although for all the reasons you pointed out nakahara it's not a scene where the humour comes off well for me) to kind of lull the audience into a false sense of security so that when the drama does kick in and, if for example, it turns out Mary has been the villain all along then it will have more of an impact. I don't think anyone is expecting the series to stay with a happy family type of vibe anyway though but I guess it can't all be drama and angst.

Maybe it's just John having a nightmare about being pushed out of his relationship with Sherlock by Mary and domesticity (and a dog!).

Last edited by Lis (December 15, 2016 11:23 pm)

I'm so excited, it sure is going to be a rollercoaster of a ride!

Lola Red wrote:

Lis wrote:

I wonder if they've just created scenes like this, where it's all light and funny [...] to kind of lull the audience into a false sense of security so that when the drama does kick in [...] then it will have more of an impact.

Well, that is exactly what they did in season 3, with TEH and TSOT being comparatively light-hearted, while HLV was quite possibly darker than anything we have seen before. So I think the more light-hearted the show will start out, the more devastated it will leave us... and I can't wait for it to happen!

That's what I suspect will happen.  It'll start out light-hearted and fluffy, with teasing and banter, as shown in that scene, but then everything will turn darker.  We all know better than to expect a happily-ever-after for John and his new family, don't we?  That's just not going to happen!


 

Last edited by kgreen20 (December 16, 2016 4:16 am)

I'm sure they did mention at some point that there were was going to be the usual humour and so on.  As I said, I think this is very early on in the case.  I think things will get darker, even in that first episode.  The clips that they are going to let us see, are likely to be the "fluff", nothing that will spoil the story.

I have a feeling that they are not going to go over the shooting (of Sherlock) again.   I'm not happy with it, but I think I can accept that in that story world, it's dealt with.  Sherlock seems to be keen to have it resolved as quickly as possible, once he "deduces" Mary, and John eventually seems to want to be back with her (and appears to be back with her at the end of HLV and in TAB).   So I think they will be moving on.  And I have thought that one thing that would explain a LOT about HLV (and possibly TAB) is if Sherlock just really, really liked Mary.   I wonder if that's what's actually happening. 

I don't find the clip too insulting to John.  I'm glad that they mention Mary's past - I would have hated if that was just swept under the carpet.   And Sherlock is correct that she has skills that John doesn't (as he has skills that she doesn't).  This fits in with his view of her in TAB, I think.

Last edited by Liberty (December 16, 2016 8:16 am)

Liberty wrote:

I'm sure they did mention at some point that there were was going to be the usual humour and so on.  As I said, I think this is very early on in the case.  I think things will get darker, even in that first episode.  The clips that they are going to let us see, are likely to be the "fluff", nothing that will spoil the story.

I agree with you, but it doesn´t change the fact that this "fluffy" scenes paint our beloved heroes in horrible light. In one scenes we have bullying of Sherlock by his so-called friends (when I was young, I was once subjected to mobbing in my working place and it looked eerily similar to "humour" projected here). In the other clip we have Sherlock once again reduced to sociopath who values murderer´s skill more than a loyalty and perseverance of his true friend.

Details like this than throw their shadow on the plot as such and can spoil it a bit, even if the plot is otherwise exciting.

Liberty wrote:

 I have a feeling that they are not going to go over the shooting (of Sherlock) again.   I'm not happy with it, but I think I can accept that in that story world, it's dealt with.  Sherlock seems to be keen to have it resolved as quickly as possible, once he "deduces" Mary, and John eventually seems to want to be back with her (and appears to be back with her at the end of HLV and in TAB).   So I think they will be moving on.  And I have thought that one thing that would explain a LOT about HLV (and possibly TAB) is if Sherlock just really, really liked Mary.   I wonder if that's what's actually happening. 

But it´s not dealt with at all. Mary´s crime remains a crime regardless if Sherlock liked her or not. And the fact remains that it is not investigated, not punished, not mentioned again at all. Total retconn. It has no consequences nor any actual bearing on the story. As if it did not even happen.

Also, it´s only a theory that Sherlock likes Mary, this was never confirmed within the story itself. And so we have an inexplicable shift from awful murderer who would not be "loved by John anymore" if truth about her past came to light to a flawed heroine, superexpert and a loving mother - from one episode to the next, with no space for adjustments in between.

So what we actually have here is simply a bad writing, I guess. We are expected to be moved and horrified by scenes of Sherlock´s suffering in HLV, only to suddenly dismiss them as insignificant the next second.

Psychologically implausible and convoluted to the extreme.

Liberty wrote:

 I don't find the clip too insulting to John.  I'm glad that they mention Mary's past - I would have hated if that was just swept under the carpet.   And Sherlock is correct that she has skills that John doesn't (as he has skills that she doesn't).  This fits in with his view of her in TAB, I think.

Remember Mofftiss claims that "Mary won´t come between Sherlock and John"?
So why does she controls their every interaction now?



John now needs permission from Mary to be on Sherlock´s side and meekly takes his child to the case if she decides so?



John is reduced to a family dog in this scene. They couldn´t convey it more plainly how he became the third wheel in the narrative now.