BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 / sherlock series 4 (spoilers inside)

**Posted by Miss Brainy** April 7, 2016 1:29 pm

besleybean wrote:
My personal predictions for S4 and beyond:
I think Mary will die.
Whether or not John marries again(and it would only be another woman), I don't know.
Whether or not he even dates more women, I don't know.
He will return to Baker Street and he and Sherlock will continue as before.

I totally agree with the prediction that Mary will die. It's the only logical conclusion to get John back to Baker Street which is definitely canon.
But for me this also means, that they can't kill off Mycroft in this season even if some parts of TAB seemed to be hinting at it. I think they don't have enough main characters provided by Arthur Conan Doyle to kill more than one in series 4...

Last edited by Miss Brainy (April 7, 2016 2:26 pm)

**Posted by kgreen20** April 7, 2016 2:50 pm

I agree. Besides, while Mary's death is canon, Mycroft's is not. So unless Mark Gatiss tires of playing Mycroft and decides to leave the show, he will not be killed off until the show is ended.

Incidentally, slash is not canon either; therefore, the "romance" some of you are alluding to cannot be brought into the show without violating canon. Sherlock and Holmes were very close as friends, but it was never more than that, in the original ACD stories or on the BBC-TV series. In canon, Dr. Watson always dated women, and when he fell in love and got married, it was with a woman. It's been the same way on the TV show.

Last edited by kgreen20 (April 7, 2016 2:54 pm)

**Posted by Vhanja** April 7, 2016 3:06 pm

I don't think Johnlock will happen, but I don't think the canon argument applies. They have already deviated from canon several times, and the cases and stories are mainly just "inspired by" ACD, so it's clear that sticking faithfully to canon isn't that important to them.

**Posted by SusiGo** April 7, 2016 3:11 pm

kgreen20 wrote:
I agree. Besides, while Mary's death is canon, Mycroft's is not. So unless Mark Gatiss tires of playing Mycroft and decides to leave the show, he will not be killed off until the show is ended.

Incidentally, slash is not canon either; therefore, the "romance" some of you are alluding to cannot be brought into the show without violating canon. Sherlock and Holmes were very close as friends, but it was never more than that, in the original ACD stories or on the BBC-TV series. In canon, Dr. Watson always dated women, and when he fell in love and got married, it was with a woman. It's been the same way on the TV show.

William Gillette wrote: "May I marry Holmes?" Doyle responded: "You may marry him, or murder or do what you like with him."

In the 19th century this probably applied to a marriage between a woman and a man. But we live in the 21st century so it would not be a violation of ACD's work if Sherlock Holmes was in love with a man. Especially since he was always ahead of his time.

**Posted by besleybean** April 7, 2016 3:27 pm

Yeah we know, but I still think the BBC team have made their views clear on relationships.

**Posted by SusiGo** April 7, 2016 3:28 pm

I beg to differ.

**Posted by Vhanja** April 7, 2016 3:32 pm

The big question is whether or not those views are lies or not. We don't know that yet, and won't know it for sure until the series is over.

**Posted by tonnaree** April 7, 2016 3:35 pm

As far as canon is concerned you still cannot completely rule out any "romance." There is a large school of thought that ACD included enough subtext for you to see Holmes and Watson as a romantic couple. The relationship had to be coded because of the nature of the times when homosexuality was illegal.

**Posted by SusiGo** April 7, 2016 3:36 pm

The word romance has been mentioned at least twice by the writers: in the foreword to the "Sherlock Chronicles", written by Mark Gatiss (have a look at my sig), and in the recent BBC statement. And I am very sure that it does not apply to Adlock, the Watsons, or any other such relationship.

But I think we all have been running off track a bit and should return to topic and continue this discussion in a series 4 speculation thread.

Last edited by SusiGo (April 7, 2016 3:38 pm)

**Posted by tonnaree** April 7, 2016 3:39 pm

Sorry Susi! *bad tonnaree - bad girl*

**Posted by SusiGo** April 7, 2016 3:42 pm

I was addressing all of us, dear, me included.

**Posted by kgreen20** April 8, 2016 8:06 pm

Good point, Susi!

One last point, and then it's back to the main discussion: I believe that the series will keep John straight. After all, up to this point, Moffat and Gatiss may not have faithfully followed canon, but neither have they completely ignored it. Just look at all the events in the show that they have taken from canon! Sherlock's hiatus and return, John's marriage to Mary, Moriarty's villainy, John's introduction to Sherlock through Mark Stamford, etc., etc. On that basis, I have reason to believe that the show won't deviate from canon in regards to Sherlock and John's relationship either. (That's also why I strongly suspect that Mary and the baby will be killed off in Season 4. Because in canon, Mary dies, and Dr. Watson does not raise a child as a single father. Instead, he ends up selling his practice and moving back to 221B Baker Street.)

OK, then, back to the original topic!

Last edited by kgreen20 (May 15, 2016 12:47 am)

**Posted by sweetskates1** May 14, 2016 3:45 am

I agree with this comment and I have no idea where the idea of the protagonists being in love came from. I simply do not see the clues nor do i understand how the theory could make logical sense given the sequence of events. Would someone please explain where the idea comes from? which clues made you think that they are pining for each other?

kgreen20 wrote:
Good point, Susi!

One last point, and then it's back to the main discussion: I believe that the series will keep John straight. After all, up to this point, Moffat and Gatiss may not have faithfully followed canon, but neither have they completely ignored it. Just look at all the events in the show that they have taken from canon! Sherlock's hiatus and return, John's marriage to Mary, Moriarity's villainy, John's introduction to Sherlock through Mark Stamford, etc., etc. On that basis, I have reason to believe that the show won't deviate from canon in regards to Sherlock and John's relationship either. (That's also why I strongly suspect that Mary and the baby will be killed off in Season 4. Because in canon, Mary dies, and Dr. Watson does not raise a child as a single father. Instead, he ends up selling his practice and moving back to 221B Baker Street.)

OK, then, back to the original topic!

**Posted by Schmiezi** May 14, 2016 4:50 am

sweetskates1 wrote:
I agree with this comment and I have no idea where the idea of the protagonists being in love came from. I simply do not see the clues nor do i understand how the theory could make logical sense given the sequence of events. Would someone please explain where the idea comes from? which clues made you think that they are pining for each other?

Dear, there are many threads with tons of explanations and links to metas and people analysing script and lightning and camera and props.

I cannot post links to those threads from my mobile but you will find them easily.

Explaining it here would be too off-topic.

**Posted by mrshouse** May 14, 2016 6:33 am

May I cordially invite you to the "official Johnlock thread"?
We discuss the different views there.

**Posted by besleybean** May 14, 2016 7:27 am

Heavens, I would issue an official warning and provide the appropriate safety equipment, before encouraging anyone to enter there!
Tee Hee.

**Posted by Schmiezi** May 14, 2016 7:31 am

Funny.

**Posted by besleybean** May 14, 2016 7:35 am

Thank you.

**Posted by mrshouse** May 14, 2016 7:50 am

*Schmiezi sarcasm off*

**Posted by besleybean** May 14, 2016 7:54 am

(Shrugs) Sarcasm's fine with me.