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June 18, 2013 2:28 pm  #421


Re: How will John react when he finds out Sherlock isn't dead?

sj4iy wrote:

Be wrote:

Yes, they communicate but they don't understand each other totally. Sherlock trys to tell John everything but John doesn't understand because he is lacking informations. In canon Watson speaks about a gap that is always there. I don't think that Sherlock told John a lie about Mrs. H. because she was not in danger. John just thought "maschine". Sherlock was furious with John in 221 b that he was not able to understand what's going on. But he couldn't tell him either.

I expect that their relationship/friendship will be more complicated untill the truth is finally revealed. If I am right with my theories John will see that Sherlock is not to blame for what happend. And that Sherlock has already suffered a lot on his own.
The picture they have painted in TRF of Sherlock will underline his genius mind and his human nature. It will draw John towards him and push him away at the same time.

Sherlock is lying because he's the one who set it up to get John out of the way (like he did in the canon).  I just wonder if John will even give him a chance to explain at all the first time they meet (I somehow doubt it).  I'm well acquainted with that feeling, myself.  You feel betrayed- here you were, worrying about them, grieving over them, and then when you've finally moved on with your life, they just come back like nothing happened.  John will most likely feel that way...of course, Sherlock had no choice, but John won't believe that at first.  That's why I think Sherlock recorded the conversation on the rooftop- not only to exonorate himself, but to prove to John that he did it to save them all.
 

 
In The final problem Holmes wrote a letter before he went to face Moriarty. He left the letter in a cigarette box. This is a quote from Holmes' note mentioning the letter Watson got from Meiringen about a woman who was ill and needed help.

Indeed, if I may make a full confession to you, I was quite convinced that the letter from Meiringen was a hoax, and I allowed you to depart on that errand under the persuasion that some development of this sort would follow.

If Mofftiss do canon Moriarty or Moran called John about Mrs. H. and Sherlock knew it and let it happen because he knew that Mrs. H. was protected by the fierce guy with the tatoo.

Last edited by Be (June 20, 2013 7:39 am)

 

June 18, 2013 2:45 pm  #422


Re: How will John react when he finds out Sherlock isn't dead?

anjaH_alias wrote:

I agree. Just: In "The Final Problem" it was Moriarty sending John Watson away. I also have problems with that, because in TRF it looks very much as if Sherlock is the one who arranged that. But this would be too much against canon, or? Normally they find analogies, but stay true to it - another question which won´t be answered until series 3 .

I don't think anything in this series is so connected to canon that it can't be changed.  They've not followed pure canon since the beginning.  They've used it when it suited, they've played with it...but they've never claimed to adhere strictly to it.  Moriarty is an example of that- he's nothing like he was portrayed in the canon because they wanted something that would be scary by today's standards.  The Hounds of Baskerville is very different because Sherlock comes to Dartmoor in the show, whereas he doesn't (that we see) in the story.  But they played with that by having Sherlock say he's not going, then changing his mind to say that he's going.  Of course, it could have been Moriarty having John called away in the show, as well...but either way, Sherlock knows what's going on and he purposely lies about it.  As you said, we won't know for sure until series 3

Last edited by sj4iy (June 18, 2013 2:46 pm)


__________________________________________________________________Bigby: Will you shut up?
Colin: Well, maybe if my throat wasn’t so parched, I wouldn’t have to keep talking.
Bigby: Wait, that doesn’t make se-
Coline: Just give me a drink, please.
 

June 19, 2013 5:14 pm  #423


Re: How will John react when he finds out Sherlock isn't dead?

I'd like it to be Sherlock that arranges the call, I think. Just to have a mirror image of how it was in the canon. It would would work either way though. Sherlock knows that John will come straight back as soon as he realises it was a set up.

What makes me think it was Sherlock that organised it, was that John's sniper was at St Barts. Moriarty knew that John was at St Barts with Sherlock, why would he arrange for him to be else where?


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June 19, 2013 5:25 pm  #424


Re: How will John react when he finds out Sherlock isn't dead?

And Sherlock would want to try and get John out of thr way, but his timed was limited .


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June 20, 2013 7:38 am  #425


Re: How will John react when he finds out Sherlock isn't dead?

Sherlock Holmes wrote:

I'd like it to be Sherlock that arranges the call, I think. Just to have a mirror image of how it was in the canon. It would would work either way though. Sherlock knows that John will come straight back as soon as he realises it was a set up.

What makes me think it was Sherlock that organised it, was that John's sniper was at St Barts. Moriarty knew that John was at St Barts with Sherlock, why would he arrange for him to be else where?

 
If Sherlock wanted John to not stay with him why has he called him at all hours ago? To talk about the not existing code? No. To know when the end game will start. Moriarty had more or less announced that John is Sherlock's pressure point.
If Sherlock wanted to be alone he could have just told John do go away or give him something to investigate in 221 b, e.g.the made up code.This would make John visit Baker Street, too. Why invent the fake near-death of Mrs H? The fake death will just make John drive to 221  and back at once. Because in the very moment John arrives in 221 he knows that the call was a fake. Sherlock would have predicted that.

IMO, the call was organized by Moriarty to make John do exactly what he did. John is a metaphorical time fuse to make Sherlock jump. Sherlock knew it because it wasn't him who arranged it and he knew that Mrs. H was protected. So the call was a fake. Why? To make John move. Funny. To shoo him around like a pet on a leash. (Irene's way of thinking).
The sniper for John has to know when to shoot John. He has to know how much time Sherlock has to prepare to jump and when the time is run off. Especially if we take into accout that Moriarty was eventually prepared to die himself.

 

June 20, 2013 1:42 pm  #426


Re: How will John react when he finds out Sherlock isn't dead?

Be wrote:

Sherlock Holmes wrote:

I'd like it to be Sherlock that arranges the call, I think. Just to have a mirror image of how it was in the canon. It would would work either way though. Sherlock knows that John will come straight back as soon as he realises it was a set up.

What makes me think it was Sherlock that organised it, was that John's sniper was at St Barts. Moriarty knew that John was at St Barts with Sherlock, why would he arrange for him to be else where?

 
If Sherlock wanted John to not stay with him why has he called him at all hours ago? To talk about the not existing code? No. To know when the end game will start. Moriarty had more or less announced that John is Sherlock's pressure point.
If Sherlock wanted to be alone he could have just told John do go away or give him something to investigate in 221 b, e.g.the made up code.This would make John visit Baker Street, too. Why invent the fake near-death of Mrs H? The fake death will just make John drive to 221  and back at once. Because in the very moment John arrives in 221 he knows that the call was a fake. Sherlock would have predicted that.

IMO, the call was organized by Moriarty to make John do exactly what he did. John is a metaphorical time fuse to make Sherlock jump. Sherlock knew it because it wasn't him who arranged it and he knew that Mrs. H was protected. So the call was a fake. Why? To make John move. Funny. To shoo him around like a pet on a leash. (Irene's way of thinking).
The sniper for John has to know when to shoot John. He has to know how much time Sherlock has to prepare to jump and when the time is run off. Especially if we take into accout that Moriarty was eventually prepared to die himself.

The reason I think Sherlock had the call made:

1. He needs John to see him "die".  John is called out just in enough time for Sherlock to go up to the roof and take care of Moriarty before John can come back.  If John had gone inside the hospital, Sherlock's plan is ruined.  Moriarty wouldn't know what Sherlock was planning (obviously), so Sherlock needed John out of the way for a short amount of time, and then called him when he came back to make sure he was in the right position to give him his "note".


__________________________________________________________________Bigby: Will you shut up?
Colin: Well, maybe if my throat wasn’t so parched, I wouldn’t have to keep talking.
Bigby: Wait, that doesn’t make se-
Coline: Just give me a drink, please.
 

June 20, 2013 3:31 pm  #427


Re: How will John react when he finds out Sherlock isn't dead?

I believe Sherlock phoned John with the sole purpose of stopping him going any nearer to the hospital, where the deception would be revealed.


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June 20, 2013 3:44 pm  #428


Re: How will John react when he finds out Sherlock isn't dead?

I went to that very area on Google Maps, where the hospital is and the scene took place. I went down into Street View; the smaller building is some kind of garage and it really is impossible to see the street below the roof from where John was stood. 


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dean - "I'm not happy about it. But I got to move on. So I'm gonna keep doing what we do...while I still can. And I'd like you to be there with me."

Sam - "I'm your brother, Dean, if you ever need to talk about anything with anybody, you got someone right here next to you."


 

June 20, 2013 3:50 pm  #429


Re: How will John react when he finds out Sherlock isn't dead?

besleybean wrote:

I believe Sherlock phoned John with the sole purpose of stopping him going any nearer to the hospital, where the deception would be revealed.

Well, yes...but he also had to get him to a certain spot and watching only and nothing else.  Remember, there's an assassin watching John, too, and if John's not in the perfect position, the assassin might see that Sherlock faked it.


__________________________________________________________________Bigby: Will you shut up?
Colin: Well, maybe if my throat wasn’t so parched, I wouldn’t have to keep talking.
Bigby: Wait, that doesn’t make se-
Coline: Just give me a drink, please.
 

June 20, 2013 6:56 pm  #430


Re: How will John react when he finds out Sherlock isn't dead?

Be wrote:

Sherlock Holmes wrote:

I'd like it to be Sherlock that arranges the call, I think. Just to have a mirror image of how it was in the canon. It would would work either way though. Sherlock knows that John will come straight back as soon as he realises it was a set up.

What makes me think it was Sherlock that organised it, was that John's sniper was at St Barts. Moriarty knew that John was at St Barts with Sherlock, why would he arrange for him to be else where?

 
If Sherlock wanted John to not stay with him why has he called him at all hours ago? To talk about the not existing code? No. To know when the end game will start. Moriarty had more or less announced that John is Sherlock's pressure point.
If Sherlock wanted to be alone he could have just told John do go away or give him something to investigate in 221 b, e.g.the made up code.This would make John visit Baker Street, too. Why invent the fake near-death of Mrs H? The fake death will just make John drive to 221  and back at once. Because in the very moment John arrives in 221 he knows that the call was a fake. Sherlock would have predicted that.

IMO, the call was organized by Moriarty to make John do exactly what he did. John is a metaphorical time fuse to make Sherlock jump. Sherlock knew it because it wasn't him who arranged it and he knew that Mrs. H was protected. So the call was a fake. Why? To make John move. Funny. To shoo him around like a pet on a leash. (Irene's way of thinking).
The sniper for John has to know when to shoot John. He has to know how much time Sherlock has to prepare to jump and when the time is run off. Especially if we take into accout that Moriarty was eventually prepared to die himself.

 

I think Sherlock didn't want John out of the way until absolutely necessary. He could've easily found him something else to do but he knew what he was going to do and he gave into sentiment and chose to spend those last few hours with the person he cares for above all others x


.........................................................................
He does love to be dramatic.
Well, thank god you're above all that!
 

June 20, 2013 7:00 pm  #431


Re: How will John react when he finds out Sherlock isn't dead?

Really?  No, I think sj4iy is nearer the mark.


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June 22, 2013 9:26 pm  #432


Re: How will John react when he finds out Sherlock isn't dead?

Someone in this thread suggested before  that John will not forgive Sherlock  so easily  not only because of his own suffering but also Mrs Hudson`s ... That´s a interesting idea, too. Mrs Hudson to whom Sherlock was like a son.
And there is Lestrade, too. Sherlock`s suicide will have had impact on his career at the Yard.

 

June 23, 2013 3:02 am  #433


Re: How will John react when he finds out Sherlock isn't dead?

Been reading Series 3 spoilers from the set, including how John reacts. It's out there if you look for it


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dean - "I'm not happy about it. But I got to move on. So I'm gonna keep doing what we do...while I still can. And I'd like you to be there with me."

Sam - "I'm your brother, Dean, if you ever need to talk about anything with anybody, you got someone right here next to you."


 

June 23, 2013 9:33 pm  #434


Re: How will John react when he finds out Sherlock isn't dead?

kittykat wrote:

Been reading Series 3 spoilers from the set, including how John reacts. It's out there if you look for it

 
Oh yes it is. Poor Sherlock.
Personally I hope they don`t work toooooo much out of of canon. In canon the reunion with Sherlock Holmes is the most astonishing ( and joyous) event in John Watsons`life. If they  ( "Moftiss") will stepping too much out of canon I will be very disappointed. The deep friendshiep - indeed love - between John and Sherlock is THE heart of the show. John had so much wanted that "miracle". Sherlock HAD "died" for him. ( I think Sherlock has jumped indeed of that roof, he could NOT be 100% sure to survive). If John  ( Mrs Hudson and Lestrade, too) will don`t valour that then he ( they) is (are) NOT worth Sherlock`s sacrifice, love and friendship!

 

June 23, 2013 10:28 pm  #435


Re: How will John react when he finds out Sherlock isn't dead?

kittykat wrote:

Been reading Series 3 spoilers from the set, including how John reacts. It's out there if you look for it

It was my phone wallpaper for a while, lol.


__________________________________________________________________Bigby: Will you shut up?
Colin: Well, maybe if my throat wasn’t so parched, I wouldn’t have to keep talking.
Bigby: Wait, that doesn’t make se-
Coline: Just give me a drink, please.
 

June 24, 2013 5:39 am  #436


Re: How will John react when he finds out Sherlock isn't dead?

Not what I would choose for wallpaper!


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

June 24, 2013 10:57 am  #437


Re: How will John react when he finds out Sherlock isn't dead?

Okay, so now I'm going to look for that :D 


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"You look sad when you think he can't see you."
 

June 24, 2013 12:16 pm  #438


Re: How will John react when he finds out Sherlock isn't dead?

Ha ha, I loved it XD


__________________________________________________________________Bigby: Will you shut up?
Colin: Well, maybe if my throat wasn’t so parched, I wouldn’t have to keep talking.
Bigby: Wait, that doesn’t make se-
Coline: Just give me a drink, please.
 

June 27, 2013 12:47 am  #439


Re: How will John react when he finds out Sherlock isn't dead?

In canon from "The Adventure of the Empty House":

"My dear Watson," said a well-remembered voice. "I owe you a thousand apologies.  I had no idea you would be so affected."
I gripped him by the arms.


So canon Holmes could be rather like our BBC Sherlock in that maybe he'll be quite oblivious to the emotions his reappearance will have for John. If John is angry enough to lash out at first, Sherlock might be quite puzzled by it but then could finally come to understand it.  Somewhere, no matter where in Series 3, I think there's bound to be some kind of a reconciliation scene that will be quite lovely in a quirky Sherlockian way we'll never expect. In canon, Watson grips Holmes by the arms.  I'm taking that as a Victorian version of an embrace. Not out of the question for our boys either (I hope) 


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And I said "dangerous" and here you are.

You. It's always you. John Watson, you keep me right.

 

June 27, 2013 5:38 am  #440


Re: How will John react when he finds out Sherlock isn't dead?

I don't think Gatiss&Moffat will ever give us a hug. 


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