BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Questions about TFP

nakahara · January 25, 2017 2:05 pm

ewige wrote:
One inch flexible pipe would have been enough and not too obvious. A pump is smallish, too. I have one at home, you wouldnt believe how efficient it is. And she must have had a couple of cronies anyway.

I was able to put up with the existence of her cronies when they were still in prison. There it made kind of sense that they controll their prisoners without maintaining direct contact with them.

But once they were in front of Musgrave Hall, the existence of Eurus cronies seems doubtful - Sherlock would see them outside if they tried to put the pipe inside the well, he would see the pipe on the ground, would hear the sounds of the pump, etc., etc.

ewige · January 25, 2017 2:17 pm

But surely she needed smb to set up the fake room and help transport adult men, at least?
You wouldn't notice a thin flexible hose in the grass, especially at night and at a distance. The pump didn't have to be in the open but rather somewhere in the cellar next to the regular piping.

nakahara · January 25, 2017 2:31 pm

OK, but wouldn´t the sounds of the running pump betray it (I presume it is not a manual pump)? In the abandoned, derelict place and at night, such sounds would be very audible - at least to somebody so keenly observant as Sherlock Holmes.

ewige · January 25, 2017 2:40 pm

I have a pump 2-3 meters down in a well beneath a thin cover. I don't hear a thing when it's running.

ETA: you know what you are bound to hear tho? The sound of running water itself from the well where John was hidden.

Last edited by ewige (January 25, 2017 2:43 pm)

nakahara · January 25, 2017 2:56 pm

ewige wrote:
I have a pump 2-3 meters down in a well beneath a thin cover. I don't hear a thing when it's running.

But in a derelict ruin like Musgrave Hall, the pump must be run by some specially installed motor to be functioning - and that motor should be audibly running somewhere in the cellar near the water supply tube, isn´t it so?

Last edited by nakahara (January 25, 2017 2:56 pm)

ewige · January 25, 2017 3:33 pm

Well it would need electricity but I assume it wasn't a problem since the screen would need it too.

But honestly, John's cries for help must have been very audible too, no matter the details like pumps or piping...

besleybean · January 25, 2017 5:40 pm

Well for whatever reason, presumably not.
Thick walls?

Naavy · January 25, 2017 6:21 pm

How old may be Musgrave Hall?
Could be some secret passages, or hidden rooms there? Is possible to exist the well inside the building, somewhere in the cellar, and cellar, having the second entrance from some separate building in the backyard (this building could be later destroyed, and the entrance backfilled, but the rest of the cellar - not?).
Because if Victor and John were under the ground, all this part of the TFP still can make sense. But if the well was simply somewhere in the garden, and no one took the look inside, what can we think about it?

Lis · January 25, 2017 7:51 pm

I think for many issues in TFP, the well included, we have to suspend our disbelief as there are quite a few things (a bit too many for my liking but oh well) that just don't make sense/are hard to believe.

I think it was Liberty that mentioned that the show has never been completely realistic though and I agree so I wasn't expecting TFP to be either but for some reason I definitely seemed to notice the unrealistic more in TFP, maybe because the whole plot was a little more removed from reality than other episodes. For the most part I can (or at least I try to) look past the issues and enjoy the character moments, which I adored.

Last edited by Lis (January 25, 2017 8:39 pm)

Liberty · January 25, 2017 8:24 pm

Yes, I mentioned that - thanks, Lis! And I agree that TFP was possibly the least "realistic", or at least that I notice it more. I don't suppose they wanted a good story to be spoiled by facts! But I'm happy to assume there's some explanation - something that wasn't relevant to the story. Yes, Eurus would have need accomplices, but not even necessarily people from the prison - it might simply have been a case of paying for it, or getting other people she'd manipulated to pay and give instructions. And she had been out and about. It wouldn't matter in the end if things were traced back to her (the fake room, putting an unconscious man down a well - how dangerous is that!! etc.) because she was already a prisoner in the worst way - she just wanted to set up that moment with Sherlock.

nakahara · January 25, 2017 8:45 pm

Liberty wrote:
... because she was already a prisoner in the worst way...

Really? To me, she seemed to be free like a bird. She had plenty of time to track John and plant herself in his way to flirt with him, she impersonated his psychologist for at least two weeks, she had plenty of time to walk around with Sherlock, dressed as Faith... no prisoner at all.

besleybean · January 25, 2017 8:46 pm

Imprisoned by her mental illness?

Naavy · January 25, 2017 10:08 pm

Lis wrote:
I think for many issues in TFP, the well included, we have to suspend our disbelief... (...)

But this topic is titled "Questions about TFP" ;] I believe it is nothing bad, to clarify part of the details, if the questions exist?

For me, Eurus was the same time both: free, and imprisoned. Her skills were unique, she was unbelievably powerful, but, her soul was "on the plane".

Last edited by Naavy (January 25, 2017 10:09 pm)

Lis · January 25, 2017 11:22 pm

Naavy wrote:
Lis wrote:
I think for many issues in TFP, the well included, we have to suspend our disbelief... (...)
But this topic is titled "Questions about TFP" ;] I believe it is nothing bad, to clarify part of the details, if the questions exist?

For me, Eurus was the same time both: free, and imprisoned. Her skills were unique, she was unbelievably powerful, but, her soul was "on the plane".

Yeah, I wasn't knocking anyone for asking questions because clearly some things do not make sense but for me personally I just think that at some point I have to almost ignore the unexplained bits otherwise my questioning of everything (not literally everything haha) detracts from my enjoyment of the show. For some plot holes, or things I find hard to believe, I don't think we'll ever come up with answers that will completely satisfy me so I try not to think too much about them...although sometimes I still find myself asking the questions haha.

Meggie K · January 26, 2017 3:58 am

Did anybody else get totally distracted by Andrew/Moriarty's perfect teeth every time he said 'tick-tock'?

besleybean · January 26, 2017 6:39 am

I always get totally distracted by Andrew.

Naavy · January 26, 2017 7:36 am

I loved Moriarty's imitation of Freddie Mercury, his scenes with the governor, Mycroft and Eurus, but I find all his "tick-tocking" irritating. It was like someone wanted to say: "we have Andrew Scott on the screen totaly ten minutes, and not only five", when he actually was only the part of the set decoration ;| I did not pay my attention to the teeth, I'm afraid

besleybean · January 26, 2017 7:51 am

I actually do have a theory regarding the last part of your post, on how much they want to use Andrew(well a few theories, actually!)...but as I love him, I don't mind!

Naavy · January 26, 2017 8:09 am

Do you mean, he could do all the tick-tocking for a purpose?

Last edited by Naavy (January 26, 2017 8:45 am)

Meggie K · January 26, 2017 1:53 pm

besleybean wrote:
I actually do have a theory regarding the last part of your post, on how much they want to use Andrew(well a few theories, actually!)...but as I love him, I don't mind!

The teeth? He DID ask if they had any cannibals at Sherrinford.