BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » "I love you": a man's perspective

Naavy · January 23, 2017 4:27 pm

http://bassfanimation.tumblr.com/post/155947842081/i-love-you-a-mans-perspective
...And say, what you think!
Me: ...Wow!...

Liberty · January 23, 2017 5:12 pm

Interesting view, although I don't entirely agree with it. I think Sherlock did grow up loved (he seems to be his parents' favourite, Mycroft cared about him, even little Eurus demanded his attention above all others and taught him the violin). And I think he cares a lot about Molly, but his feelings aren't really romantic. He cares that she cares though, and I think is moved by her confession.

But that's just my view, and I can see the other view fitting in with the information we're given too!

ewige · January 23, 2017 5:14 pm

Sure thing... he's not influenced by his lovely wife's OTP. Like, at all

I agree that Molly is important to Sherlock. More so in later seasons, just because he begins to care about people.

But I think he smashes the coffin because he hurt her and not because all that pent up love is rushing back into his system all of a sudden.

Schmiezi · January 23, 2017 5:38 pm

I disagree with this Blog too.

If Sherlock had said "I love you" to John under the same circumstances, I would not have wetted myself. I would have been sad because IMO it was clear that he did not mean it.

He hurt Molly and lost anyway. That's why he smashes the coffin I think.

Naavy · January 23, 2017 5:58 pm

I believe, just a bit of Sherlolly could be a nice thing... Only that is not the most significant part of this ...(Well.. What is it? Essay?) ...for me ;]

What I find really important: "The scenes inside Sherrinford were about systematically making Sherlock face each single, major emotion that he’s refused to feel all these years: anger, fear, sadness, and above all…love. "
"His reading of The Final Problem was that this was Eurus effectively unlocking the original Sherlock Holmes."

Do you think, Eurus'es goal was not only to play with her family like with marionettes, and not just ask for help for herself, but also to help Sherlock by "unlocking" his real personality? Surely it was one of the effects - she woke up Sherlock's feelings, and he is the different man now (another effect was the death of many people...). Could she purposely act to reverse, what happened because her actions years ago?

Last edited by Naavy (January 24, 2017 10:03 am)

SusiGo · January 23, 2017 6:31 pm

Interesting thoughts. I do not think that Eurus had a plan of helping Sherlock, at least not in the beginning. Supporting Jim in destroying her brother would not be the right way to go about this. IMO she indeed helped him to face his demons - locking away his feelings for decades - but this is a journey he started the moment he met John Watson. And people like Mrs Hudson and Molly helped as well. But I do not think that it was her intention to heal Sherlock but mostly to find her way back from the lonely plane. I will have to watch the episode again (and again) but I think that Eurus is comparable to a long-ticking bomb that one day had to explode and make the Holmes family face their demons. Which can be liberating.

Liberty · January 23, 2017 6:48 pm

I agree, it has been an ongoing process, for years. He dealt with fear in HoB, for instance. He loves John and doesn't care who knows it - even though he doesn't remember Victor, he has found a worthy replacement. He has dealt with grief and guilt over Mary's death just recently. By TFP, there's only that final piece of the puzzle missing - apart from that Sherlock's just fine at the beginning. And I don't think Eurus is doing it for Sherlock's sake but for her own. I think it's good for Sherlock in the end, though. (Not so good for the governor, his wife, and the therapist!). He gets to put right what he failed at years ago, and gain a lost family member.

Naavy · January 23, 2017 6:49 pm

SusiGo wrote:
Interesting thoughts. I do not think that Eurus had a plan of helping Sherlock, at least not in the beginning. Supporting Jim in destroying her brother would not be the right way to go about this. IMO she indeed helped him to face his demons - locking away his feelings for decades - but this is a journey he started the moment he met John Watson. And people like Mrs Hudson and Molly helped as well. But I do not think that it was her intention to heal Sherlock but mostly to find her way back from the lonely plane. I will have to watch the episode again (and again) but I think that Eurus is comparable to a long-ticking bomb that one day had to explode and make the Holmes family face their demons. Which can be liberating.

Perfectly put! And I like your interpretation...

...except - I wondered last days, wanted she really to kill Sherlock, or Moriarty was acting on his own? He most likely had no idea, that Eurus was his, and Mycroft's sister.

Last edited by Naavy (January 23, 2017 6:51 pm)

Meretricious · January 23, 2017 9:09 pm

But I think Mycroft tells Moriarty that Eurus is his/Sherlock's sister:

MYCROFT: She has noted your interest in the activities of my little brother.
JIM: So ... what’s she got to do ... with Sherlock Holmes? Whatever you’re about to tell me... I already know it’s gonna be ... awesome!

besleybean · January 23, 2017 9:10 pm

Fabulous scene.

Naavy · January 23, 2017 9:35 pm

Meretricious wrote:
But I think Mycroft tells Moriarty that Eurus is his/Sherlock's sister:

MYCROFT: She has noted your interest in the activities of my little brother.
JIM: So ... what’s she got to do ... with Sherlock Holmes? Whatever you’re about to tell me... I already know it’s gonna be ... awesome!

He knew, that Sherlock was Mycroft's brother, but Mycroft never admitted his (and Sherlock's) relationship with Eurus. I hope...

besleybean · January 23, 2017 9:37 pm

Well I assume the whole point was that Mycroft did tell Jim.

ewige · January 23, 2017 9:40 pm

Naavy wrote:
Meretricious wrote:
But I think Mycroft tells Moriarty that Eurus is his/Sherlock's sister:

MYCROFT: She has noted your interest in the activities of my little brother.
JIM: So ... what’s she got to do ... with Sherlock Holmes? Whatever you’re about to tell me... I already know it’s gonna be ... awesome!
He knew, that Sherlock was Mycroft's brother, but Mycroft never admitted his (and Sherlock's) relationship with Eurus. I hope...

Eek. I hope so too. Moriarty would be playing a wholly different set of games with Sherlock otherwise!
Besides, you can't have a secret sister and tell your enemy about your relationship to her!

ewige · January 23, 2017 9:42 pm

besleybean wrote:
Well I assume the whole point was that Mycroft did tell Jim.

I know, it is possible... I just hope it's not true. I'm slowly getting over other inconsistencies... but this one would make Moriarty a pawn after a five minutes conversation. I really hope it wasn't intended like that.

besleybean · January 23, 2017 9:44 pm

Yeah, I'm not sure if I'm missing something here...because how Moriarty attacked Sherlock, didn't seem to have anything to do with the Eurus...other than leaving her all of those nice post-death messages.

Naavy · January 23, 2017 9:53 pm

besleybean wrote:
Yeah, I'm not sure if I'm missing something here...because how Moriarty attacked Sherlock, didn't seem to have anything to do with the Eurus...other than leaving her all of those nice post-death messages.

Perhaps he first made the recordings, and later changed his plans, and decided to kill Sherlock single-handedly? ... Just thinking aloud.

besleybean · January 23, 2017 9:54 pm

Yes, at the end of the day we are dealing with two highly disturbed and unpredictable people here: Eurus and Jim.

WhoIWantToBe · January 24, 2017 7:08 am

ugh I hate these 'from a man's perspective' type posts, because honestly it just feels like 'a man said it, therefore its more valid'. I know that even if this is unintentional, it is often meant this way, because surely only a man knows what a man is thinking, amirite or what? *rolls eyes*

I have no doubt that hurting Molly, or I should emphasize being MADE to hurt Molly is what drove Sherlock to act out. Mycroft says immediately after "Sherlock, however hard that was ..." and Sherlock doesn't let him finish the sentence. So, what was Mycroft going to say next?

I sincerley doubt Sherlock ever harboured romantic feelings for Molly. When Molly says her and her fiance are having 'quite a lot of sex' in TSoT, Sherlock is about as creeped out as when Mrs Hudson admits to using his handcuffs in TLD Since he came from his 'suicide', he had treated her fairly kindly, and I think more than anything was upset that Eurus makes him un-do all the damage he'd been trying to repair since. I think its pretty clear he adores Molly, but probably it is true that he has to be in a life or death situation before he'd ever admit his affection (romatoc or no), hence why Mycroft says "Sherlock, however hard that was ..."

Last edited by WhoIWantToBe (January 24, 2017 7:09 am)

besleybean · January 24, 2017 7:14 am

No I don't think Sherlock has romantic feelings towards Molly at all, but he considers her a close friend.
It's interesting this' from a man's perspective' thing though, I kind of agree with you.
Except it is Steven and Benedict's insistence upon an attraction to Irene, that finally made me realise that possibly these men are picking up the signals that I'm not not. Although that is possibly more about sexual orientation/drive, rather than gender identity.

Last edited by besleybean (January 24, 2017 7:19 am)

SusiGo · January 24, 2017 7:17 am

Yes, I do not see a romantic attachment to Molly. But Sherlock has come a long way since that Christmas party in 221b. He has learnt to be kinder and more empathic. TEH shows that Molly is a dear friend and that he wishes her to be happy. His MP in HLV shows that he values Molly's expertise. The man he has become knows how hard it will be for her to say those words, knowing that her feelings are not reciprocated and probably never will be.
In a way, Eurus forces Sherlock back into his old cold-hearted persona he has fought hard to leave behind.