besleybean wrote:

Sometimes it's like 2 parallel universes operate on this forum!

 
Indeed!
If you take a peek into the johnlock thread, you'll find us all very happy about the recent developments. I hope the last ep will make both universes happy again. It seems like a feat but apparently it's very possible, judging by the different interpretations of TLD.

I'm afraid the queerbaiting accusations won't stop unless the two are shown in bed together or something. The delicate storytelling is considered queerbaiting in and of itself by some. Can't be helped, I guess.

I've gone and had a look now, and I've got to clarify - when I said Mrs Hudson doesn't ship them any more, I meant that she doesn't think they are "together".   Not that she doesn't care about them - I think she goes to extremes to help because she cares for them and thinks they need each other, not because she thinks they are "in a relationship". 

And honestly, it's not heteronormativity that makes me see Irene as Sherlock's romantic interest.  It's what we're told over and over in the show.  Including in this episode.

Now I'm happy if people are happy.  What I can see is that this very much a Sherlock/John relationship episode, and there relationship does develop (despite the claims that the only thing that could happen was romance!) and for people who want them to end up as a couple, there is lots to like.  They are now reconciled, both single, closer than ever, etc.  But I think in terms of Johnlock being endgame, planned and written into the show through coding, etc. - not so much at all.  It's kind of dismissed in this episode, if it wasn't before. 

I never wanted them to do SIB, but knew they would.
It is an excellent episode.
But I am not keen on the canon story, so it was always gonna be my least favourite episode.
I don't like any suggestion of attraction between Sherlock and Irene.  But the team have always made it clear that they feel an attraction there and have now shown it twice.
Oh and what are these great texts between Sherlock and John that I saw reference to.

We can't agree to disagree on a debate thread!    But as ever, I'm not arguing against people shipping them at all, or interpreting the episodes the way they want.  It's always been about whether Moftiss are intentionally writing Johnlock.  I don't think they are, and I actually think they are being very clear about it now.  Much less ambiguity than in previous episodes.

ASIB has been my favourite episode too, for a number of reasons!  It may be deposed now too, but I feel I need some space from S4 before I make my mind up.  I do think they used that episode, and that character (Irene) to illustrate something about Sherlock and romantic relationships.  He's kind of afraid of them. 

I do think it's signifcant that years down the line, that's what she still symbolises. Even John can see it.   And Sherlock sees being tempted to text in the same light as John being tempted to stray from his marriage.   It's definitely sexual/romantic.  And that's juxtaposed with that beautiful, but clearly platonic, non-sexual hug with John. 

Last edited by Liberty (January 9, 2017 8:21 pm)

I don't think so either.  But since TAB I've had a feeling that this would be explored more in S4.  Maybe that's all we're getting, but I think next week we'll go back to Sherlock's childhood and see exactly why he's scared of romantic entanglements. 

I think I'm not much for debating now because I honestly think Moftiss are so clever that both readings are perfectly valid since they intend them to be so.

I suppose what I see is that there are different interpretations that are valid, but there seems to be only one intention.   I don't honestly think they've carefully crafted two parallel stories here.   They have been quite clear on which story is the intended one, both in what we see on screen, and in what they say in interviews, etc. 

I think that as it's gone on, as well, the two strands have move farther apart.  For instance, I think it's so clear that John loved Mary deeply now.  To imagine that he wanted her out of the way so he could be with Sherlock changes that story drastically.

Anyway. We'll find out their final intentions in a few days!

Because as we are trying to say: no ambiguity has ever been shown in the show.  Sherlock and John only ever shown interested in women and in interviews all the team have been quite clear that Johnlock was not their intention.

I think we've all been saying it for a while.
But yes, this is succinctly put.

Mot people are happy if they feel they are getting what they want.
With BBC Sherlock, I still love it even when it doesn't give me exactly what I want.