BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » The comprehensive Johnlock guide (Johnlockers only)

Schmiezi · January 9, 2017 6:44 pm

Great and scary pic!

Another argument "over there" is that there are no more jokes on them being a couple. For me, this is an argument that Johnlock will happen soon. But like you, ewige, I don't feel like posting at the debate. Too many people who just "know" it won't happen. It's a really fun-free place!

tonnaree · January 9, 2017 6:48 pm

How can anyone say Mrs Hudson doesn't ship them anymore!?!?!
She, over everyone else, sees what they are to each other and was going to drag John back to Sherlock even if she had to use the gun to do it!

ewige · January 9, 2017 6:49 pm

Schmiezi wrote:
Thanks for your wonderful post, ewige.

I love coming here at the moment, with all the "certainty" that Johnlock will never happen over at other threads. I always wonder how people can not want to look close enough to see what's really going on here.

I get it that many things can be explained away by a very good friendship.

But even John recognizes now that 1) Sherlock needs a romantic partner to be a complete human being and 2) you need to make the first step before it's too late. I hope one week till the next ep is enough for him to put 2 and 2 together

I'm really calling it - by the end of the next ep Sherlock will be the most human human being, free of the old trauma holding him back and making him pretend he's an unfeeling ass. This is the end of the story they've been telling all along. His world will be shattered but luckily Dr. John Watson knows how to make Sherlock complete again.

ewige · January 9, 2017 6:53 pm

tonnaree wrote:
How can anyone say Mrs Hudson doesn't ship them anymore!?!?!
She, over everyone else, sees what they are to each other and was going to drag John back to Sherlock even if she had to use the gun to do it!

Exactly!

Re: gay jokes
I think at this point in the series we can say that the love between John and Sherlock can't be reduced to a funny "gay" comment. They are not gay. Even Sherlock isn't gay despite him never correcting anybody on screen. They are just two human beings in love with each other.

SusiGo · January 9, 2017 6:55 pm

Where can I sign this?

And, really, Mrs Hudson ships it harder than ever, she just does not make "jokes" anymore. Think of her taking John to task because he abandoned Sherlock? Mocking Mycroft because he does understand what is happening with his brother? She is so wonderfully protective of Sherlock and knows exactly what he needs. And this is John.

ewige · January 9, 2017 7:04 pm

SusiGo wrote:
Where can I sign this?

And, really, Mrs Hudson ships it harder than ever, she just does not make "jokes" anymore. Think of her taking John to task because he abandoned Sherlock? Mocking Mycroft because he does understand what is happening with his brother? She is so wonderfully protective of Sherlock and knows exactly what he needs. And this is John.

Mrs H has definitely pulled all the stops! She's protective, manipulative, insightful here - just like she always has been, with the difference that this time she actually needed to act accordingly.

tonnaree · January 9, 2017 8:42 pm

Hudders pulled a gun on Sherlock, handcuffed him and tossed him in the boot of her car to drag him back to John.

This will give me joy to the end of my days.

Lis · January 9, 2017 8:46 pm

The "they don't matter, you do" from Mrs Hudson to John was very sweet!

Schmiezi · January 9, 2017 9:43 pm

Okay, so I have just watched the hugging scene for the second time and I must say I am amazed by how brilliantly it is written. You can see it both ways, as Johnlock milestone or as friendship and Sherlock loves Irene. Both ways work, even they are completely different.

By that, they made me as happy as every non-shipper.

My Johnlock heart is even more happy after watching it again. So many significant lines, and looks, and John crying. *sigh* Mary so sweet again line in HLV, and John telling himself through her to be the man he wants to be.

BTW, I can fully understand why John felt attracted to her. When your partner sees you as the person you want to be deep inside, that feels wonderful. (Does Sherlock see him like that, too?)

Yet, John did not love her enough to throw "E's" number away, the marriage was boring, and dead Mary disappears at the hospital as soon as the game is on.

I think I love this episode!

KeepersPrice · January 9, 2017 10:14 pm

tonnaree wrote:
Hudders pulled a gun on Sherlock, handcuffed him and tossed him in the boot of her car to drag him back to John.

This will give me joy to the end of my days.

Me, too! I loved the "rug pull" when the red car zoomed up at the therapist's. First we think it's got to be Sherlock; but it's not till later that the reveal is Hudders! OMG, I screamed out loud with joy. Then when she opened the boot to reveal Sherlock - another scream of joy! Then the fabulous choreography of the tea cup/gun exchange and the handcuff remarks. Finally, deep into the show she passes the keys to the car toJohn so he can go rescue Sherlock after she said he couldn't drive it. Just a fantastic series of reveals that deserves some kind of an award, IMO.

NicoleCollard · January 9, 2017 10:18 pm

Schmiezi wrote:
Okay, so I have just watched the hugging scene for the second time and I must say I am amazed by how brilliantly it is written. You can see it both ways, as Johnlock milestone or as friendship and Sherlock loves Irene. Both ways work, even they are completely different.

By that, they made me as happy as every non-shipper.

My Johnlock heart is even more happy after watching it again. So many significant lines, and looks, and John crying. *sigh* Mary so sweet again line in HLV, and John telling himself through her to be the man he wants to be.

BTW, I can fully understand why John felt attracted to her. When your partner sees you as the person you want to be deep inside, that feels wonderful. (Does Sherlock see him like that, too?)

Yet, John did not love her enough to throw "E's" number away, the marriage was boring, and dead Mary disappears at the hospital as soon as the game is on.

I think I love this episode!

Very good points.

John will always remember Mary. Even in ACD's canon he refers to her as "his great loss". But, fortunately, time heals every wound and John will get over her death eventually. I think it's quite early for John to start dating again, or even thinking of being in love with someone else (though "I wanted more. I still want it").

As for Johnlock, I would be happy if they ended this season with John and Sherlock back in 221B solving crimes together and being able to speak a little more to each other about their concerns and feelings. The rest, I don't know. Moftiss will provide. But, please, make more seasons...

ewige · January 9, 2017 11:04 pm

Schmiezi wrote:
Okay, so I have just watched the hugging scene for the second time and I must say I am amazed by how brilliantly it is written. You can see it both ways, as Johnlock milestone or as friendship and Sherlock loves Irene. Both ways work, even they are completely different.

By that, they made me as happy as every non-shipper.

I've been puzzling over the ending of the show for quite a while now. On one hand there is all the johnlock; on the other hand, what do you do in the end? Let them kiss? One way or another, you make half your audience unhappy. No matter the ending, there will be gloating and fights in the fandom. I don't like even contemplating that.

I too think now that the way Moftiss tell their story (or have been telling it so far) is pretty brilliant. They will have their cake and eat it, won't they? There is this canonical friendship on the surface. Every single scene is a proof of it. However, if you look at the show in its entirety, you begin to pick up on themes and motifs and tropes and see johnlock IF YOU WANT to see it.

Yes, Moftiss give interviews that deny johnlock, but cmon, if ambiguity wasn't their intention, they wouldn't execute the show the way they are doing it. And should johnlock be their endgame, they wouldn't give it away upfront.

I am more certain than ever that debating johnlock is actually pointless under the assumption of the ambiguous ending.

The intent to do some iconic LGBT representation can be proven only if the ending is unambgiguous but then it's obvious and not for a debate anyway. But if the intent is ambguity, you can't plausibly deny it and you all you need to prove it is have a fleeting glance at the johnlock community.

Last edited by ewige (January 9, 2017 11:07 pm)

Mothonthemantel · January 10, 2017 12:08 am

I notice that now all the obstacles have been removed for Johnlock as tjlc expected , many people think the record has actually been set straight. Everyone's straight! Ironic .

SusiGo · January 10, 2017 8:10 am

May I quote myself on this?

http://gosherlocked.tumblr.com/post/155626819526/texting-a-woman-now-and-then-is-love-sacrificing

WhoIWantToBe · January 10, 2017 8:55 am

SusiGo wrote:
May I quote myself on this?

http://gosherlocked.tumblr.com/post/155626819526/texting-a-woman-now-and-then-is-love-sacrificing

Truth!

SusiGo · January 10, 2017 9:42 am

Martin is in the basement again.

http://get-shezza.tumblr.com/post/155666173904/okay-but-martin-was-on-stephen-colberts-show-like

Schmiezi · January 10, 2017 10:01 am

SusiGo wrote:
Martin is in the basement again.

http://get-shezza.tumblr.com/post/155666173904/okay-but-martin-was-on-stephen-colberts-show-like

It must be nice there. They all seem so eager to get there!

ewige · January 10, 2017 10:19 am

SusiGo wrote:
Martin is in the basement again.

http://get-shezza.tumblr.com/post/155666173904/okay-but-martin-was-on-stephen-colberts-show-like

Yep. And love conquers all.

SusiGo · January 10, 2017 10:26 am

It is as it is.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

ewige · January 10, 2017 4:49 pm

"the conversation that was triggered by a text from irene ended in john crying into sherlock’s chest and sherlock holding him and putting his face in his hair. now that’s what i call heterobaiting"

http://sherlockbuddy.tumblr.com/post/155659487874/sidryan-the-conversation-that-was-triggered-by-a