Mothonthemantel wrote:

Yes liberty Sherlock wanted to do his showing off for John. It is unclear if Sherlock expected just John or both of them together because of the different texts. He seemed surprised to see Mary alone.
I think I lean towards him thinking John was bringing more back up for sure , Mary would have had little chance of revenge with the crowd there.
The improbability of a secretary who was never a field agent killing someone with one shot though , likely quite rightly was written off!

As I pointed out in another thread, Norbury seemed very devastated at the end of Sherlock´s seemingly arrogant deduction and showed signs of surrendering without any protest. But when Sherlock raised his hand, demanding a gun from her, she shot at him quite gleefully - despite the fact that the shot could not make her situation any better. She acted quite irrationally, with the sole purpose of harming somebody.

Sherlock, who probably intended to crush her into submission with his well-aimed words, just didn´t calculate this irrational behaviour into his plan - which is quite understandable in such a rational man.

I agree with your point about the moralistic problem here, Moth.

On the other hand, I see another personal dilemma here. Mary, the former assassin/agent, faces here the person directly responsible for the screw-up at the embassy that cost the lives of massacred hostages and AGRA members, including AJ (which was something like her former family). She could not prevent any death that preceded this. But she could at least prevent this last attempt at somebody´s life and thus prevent the betrayer to have her triumph over her again. And so her sacrifice was in some way a victory over her enemy.... even if it cost her own life.

Well, I wonder what Vivian Norbury would do if Sherlock didn´t make that deduction and decided to be silent instead.

I think he called Mary to the aquarium before Mycroft and Lestrade with a specific goal to show her the person who betrayed AGRA and to give Mary the sense of resolution with that.

So, if he didn´t make the deduction, would Mary allow Vivian to just go like that? I doubt it. 

Would Vivian just let herself to be arrested calmly by Mycroft and Lestrade and would she go with them, if Sherlock didn´t make the deduction? I doubt that too. I think she was determined to make as much harm as possible if they did not let her go - and that´s why she carried a gun in her handbag.

So I believe Vivian would shoot at somebody anyway.

And remember, she brandished a gun, after Mary - not Sherlock - was trying to jump at her in anger.

With that deduction, Sherlock just brought her attention on himself. He could never predict that Mary would take a bullet for him. 

In conclusion - Mary´s death is absolutely not his fault, regardless of the deduction.

Also, look at Sherlock´s first reaction after AJ started to shoot at them in Morocco:

http://geeks-and-tjlc.tumblr.com/post/155339532686/shrlk-jon-lox-swearingjohn-amazing-how

How can John blame that man for anything is beyond me... 

aww, that is very touching indeed, but grief can do a lot to a human being...
no worries, be will come around eventually

Last edited by Lola Red (January 3, 2017 4:45 pm)

besleybean wrote:

Even speaking as a militant non-Johnlocker, that is very touching.

Ok that was said with my heart.
With my head: yes, Sherlock is being selfless, but who does he protect- John or Mary?
John is closer, yes he was a soldier, but a medic.
Mary is further away and a trained SAS type.

He definitely covers John with an overturned table, so that the shooter does not see John´s exact position in the room:


 

nakahara wrote:

I think he called Mary to the aquarium before Mycroft and Lestrade with a specific goal to show her the person who betrayed AGRA and to give Mary the sense of resolution with that.

I do not think Sherlock called Lestrade and Mycroft to the aquarium. It was John on his way to aquarium. So what wanted Sherlock to do just with John and maybe Mary.

Mary's death might not be Sherlock's fault but the important thing is that he believes it is because he was overconfident.. So he accepts that John hhas right to be angry at him.

E2 is based on Dying detective, we will see what is really going to happen but dying Sherlock could move John a bit. 

Preceja wrote:

.............Mary's death might not be Sherlock's fault but the important thing is that he believes it is because he was overconfident.. So he accepts that John hhas right to be angry at him. E2 is based on Dying detective, we will see what is really going to happen but dying Sherlock could move John a bit. 

Argh, so much angst!
 

Of course.
But I don't think that in any way did Sherlock want Mary to die.

Well, it's a bit like choosing your favourite child, isn't it?
In that situation and it was 2 of your children...which one would you have turned the table over for?
But anyway, point taken.
I will say it AGAIN.  Nobody has ever denied that Sherlock loves John.
But I also know he loved Mary, too.

My point entirely.