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September 3, 2016 6:23 pm  #6921


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

besleybean wrote:

Is it nuance, though?
People have the right to see what they like...but possibly saying that is what is meant to be shown, is something different.

Yes, again, I agree with this.

I think people have the right to see whatever it is they see in a work of art - and that is the subjective view. 

Then there is the original intention of the artist - that I see as the objective view.

Then again, I'm more a modernist than a postmodernist, which would explain why I think like this.
 


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"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings


Team Hudders!
 
 

September 3, 2016 6:26 pm  #6922


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Schmiezi wrote:

That's why this debate is still interesting. With unreliable statements there is still room to interpret.

I think it's bordering on being offensive (towards Moftiss, not me) to say their statement was unreliable. 
 


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"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings


Team Hudders!
 
 

September 3, 2016 6:29 pm  #6923


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Sorry, I don't get that. They say that they lie to hide plot twists. And I think it is great that they do.


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I still believe that love conquers all!

     

"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

September 3, 2016 6:34 pm  #6924


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Yes, I agree. And then, while admitting this is what they do, they say they don't lie about this.


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings


Team Hudders!
 
 

September 3, 2016 6:36 pm  #6925


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Vhanja wrote:

Yes, I agree. And then, while admitting this is what they do, they say they don't lie about this.

That's a wonderful example of a paradox. ;-)


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I still believe that love conquers all!

     

"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

September 3, 2016 6:36 pm  #6926


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I thought Mark seemed quite definite in the Mumbai interview.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

September 3, 2016 6:38 pm  #6927


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

besleybean wrote:

I thought Mark seemed quite definite in the Mumbai interview.

And that is just as fine as other people not seeing it that way, right?

At the moment I feel like I am bursting with anticipating for S4!!!


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I still believe that love conquers all!

     

"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

September 3, 2016 6:39 pm  #6928


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Schmiezi wrote:

Vhanja wrote:

Yes, I agree. And then, while admitting this is what they do, they say they don't lie about this.

That's a wonderful example of a paradox. ;-)

I can see how it can be interpret it that way for some. To me, it's quite clear. 

Anyway, what's important to me isn't how people interpret what they say today. What's important to me is that people don't feel entitled, and that the forum becomes full of the rage or bitterness we've seen in the fandom in general lately when S4 is out if Johnlock doesn't happen.


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings


Team Hudders!
 
 

September 3, 2016 6:40 pm  #6929


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Vhanja wrote:

Schmiezi wrote:

Vhanja wrote:

Yes, I agree. And then, while admitting this is what they do, they say they don't lie about this.

That's a wonderful example of a paradox. ;-)

I can see how it can be interpret it that way for some. To me, it's quite clear. 

Anyway, what's important to me isn't how people interpret what they say today. What's important to me is that people don't feel entitled, and that the forum becomes full of the rage or bitterness we've seen in the fandom in general lately when S4 is out if Johnlock doesn't happen.

Let's deal with that when it happens. Or doesn't happen. :-)


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I still believe that love conquers all!

     

"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

September 3, 2016 6:40 pm  #6930


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

That scares me more than anything Moftiss can dream up about S4.


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings


Team Hudders!
 
 

September 3, 2016 6:43 pm  #6931


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I don't know if I'm scared of anything.
But I do hope Sherlock keeps going, despite anything.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

September 3, 2016 6:43 pm  #6932


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Vhanja wrote:

That scares me more than anything Moftiss can dream up about S4.

And they can dream up really Bad stuff, of that I am sure. :-p


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I still believe that love conquers all!

     

"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

September 3, 2016 6:44 pm  #6933


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Schmiezi wrote:

Vhanja wrote:

That scares me more than anything Moftiss can dream up about S4.

And they can dream up really Bad stuff, of that I am sure. :-p

They can, but never anything worse than the dark corners of fandom itself.


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings


Team Hudders!
 
 

September 3, 2016 6:47 pm  #6934


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

That's true, for wherever humans are involved, I'm affraid. But we are straying off-topic, I guess. Sorry.


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I still believe that love conquers all!

     

"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

September 3, 2016 6:51 pm  #6935


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

To me, Mark's sincerity is obvious in the Mumbai interview.  And I didn't hear the With an Accent interview, but the writer felt that they were sincere there too.   And I suppose this comes down to interpretation as well, but it does always surprise me that people see Mark as lying there. 

I'm not sure where I stand on the issue.  I do think that works of art can kind of take on a life of their own after they're made, and "mean" something other than the artist intended.   And of course I think that people are entitled to their own interpretations.  I have some interpretations of my own which are not absolutely proven on the show, but which form part of my view of it.   I just don't happen to see this particular one. 

 

September 3, 2016 6:53 pm  #6936


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I think that people are entitled on whatever they interprit from a work, whatever it is and however "far" it is from the intention - that's the subjective side.

Then there's the author's intent - that's the objective side.

Or so I see it.


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings


Team Hudders!
 
 

September 3, 2016 6:54 pm  #6937


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Me, too.
Some of us love Johnlock in fan art/fic/vids and our own fantasies.
But I don't see it in the show.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

September 3, 2016 7:08 pm  #6938


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Yes I agree, besley. And I don't have any issues with those who interpret the shows otherwise.

I have issues with those who think that, for whatever reason, they are entitled to have their subjective and personal interpretation to be in the show.


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings


Team Hudders!
 
 

September 3, 2016 7:11 pm  #6939


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Oh yes, we can hope the team do what we like.
But we certainly can't demand it,
Would be pointless anyway!
They will do what they want and for me, they know best.
Well even if they don't, it's their vision and not mine!
I write my on stories and have my own fantasies for my vision.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

September 3, 2016 7:17 pm  #6940


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Isn't there a thread about fandom? I think we should continue our discussion there. See, I doubt that it is basically a Johnlock topic. I would bet that should for example Mary turn out to be a baddie somehow, there will be evil fans insulting the team as well. :-/

So let's move to the other thread and return to Johnlock or not here.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I still believe that love conquers all!

     

"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

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