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besleybean wrote:
Is it nuance, though?
People have the right to see what they like...but possibly saying that is what is meant to be shown, is something different.
Yes, again, I agree with this.
I think people have the right to see whatever it is they see in a work of art - and that is the subjective view.
Then there is the original intention of the artist - that I see as the objective view.
Then again, I'm more a modernist than a postmodernist, which would explain why I think like this.

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Schmiezi wrote:
That's why this debate is still interesting. With unreliable statements there is still room to interpret.
I think it's bordering on being offensive (towards Moftiss, not me) to say their statement was unreliable.

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Sorry, I don't get that. They say that they lie to hide plot twists. And I think it is great that they do.

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Yes, I agree. And then, while admitting this is what they do, they say they don't lie about this.

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Vhanja wrote:
Yes, I agree. And then, while admitting this is what they do, they say they don't lie about this.
That's a wonderful example of a paradox. ;-)

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I thought Mark seemed quite definite in the Mumbai interview.
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besleybean wrote:
I thought Mark seemed quite definite in the Mumbai interview.
And that is just as fine as other people not seeing it that way, right?
At the moment I feel like I am bursting with anticipating for S4!!!

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Schmiezi wrote:
Vhanja wrote:
Yes, I agree. And then, while admitting this is what they do, they say they don't lie about this.
That's a wonderful example of a paradox. ;-)
I can see how it can be interpret it that way for some. To me, it's quite clear.
Anyway, what's important to me isn't how people interpret what they say today. What's important to me is that people don't feel entitled, and that the forum becomes full of the rage or bitterness we've seen in the fandom in general lately when S4 is out if Johnlock doesn't happen.

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Vhanja wrote:
Schmiezi wrote:
Vhanja wrote:
Yes, I agree. And then, while admitting this is what they do, they say they don't lie about this.
That's a wonderful example of a paradox. ;-)
I can see how it can be interpret it that way for some. To me, it's quite clear.
Anyway, what's important to me isn't how people interpret what they say today. What's important to me is that people don't feel entitled, and that the forum becomes full of the rage or bitterness we've seen in the fandom in general lately when S4 is out if Johnlock doesn't happen.
Let's deal with that when it happens. Or doesn't happen. :-)

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That scares me more than anything Moftiss can dream up about S4. ![]()

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I don't know if I'm scared of anything.
But I do hope Sherlock keeps going, despite anything.
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Vhanja wrote:
That scares me more than anything Moftiss can dream up about S4.
And they can dream up really Bad stuff, of that I am sure. :-p

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Schmiezi wrote:
Vhanja wrote:
That scares me more than anything Moftiss can dream up about S4.
And they can dream up really Bad stuff, of that I am sure. :-p
They can, but never anything worse than the dark corners of fandom itself.

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That's true, for wherever humans are involved, I'm affraid. But we are straying off-topic, I guess. Sorry.

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To me, Mark's sincerity is obvious in the Mumbai interview. And I didn't hear the With an Accent interview, but the writer felt that they were sincere there too. And I suppose this comes down to interpretation as well, but it does always surprise me that people see Mark as lying there.
I'm not sure where I stand on the issue. I do think that works of art can kind of take on a life of their own after they're made, and "mean" something other than the artist intended. And of course I think that people are entitled to their own interpretations. I have some interpretations of my own which are not absolutely proven on the show, but which form part of my view of it. I just don't happen to see this particular one.
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I think that people are entitled on whatever they interprit from a work, whatever it is and however "far" it is from the intention - that's the subjective side.
Then there's the author's intent - that's the objective side.
Or so I see it.

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Me, too.
Some of us love Johnlock in fan art/fic/vids and our own fantasies.
But I don't see it in the show.
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Yes I agree, besley. And I don't have any issues with those who interpret the shows otherwise.
I have issues with those who think that, for whatever reason, they are entitled to have their subjective and personal interpretation to be in the show.

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Oh yes, we can hope the team do what we like.
But we certainly can't demand it,
Would be pointless anyway!
They will do what they want and for me, they know best.
Well even if they don't, it's their vision and not mine!
I write my on stories and have my own fantasies for my vision.
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Isn't there a thread about fandom? I think we should continue our discussion there. See, I doubt that it is basically a Johnlock topic. I would bet that should for example Mary turn out to be a baddie somehow, there will be evil fans insulting the team as well. :-/
So let's move to the other thread and return to Johnlock or not here.

