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August 27, 2016 10:16 am  #4521


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

Liberty wrote:

So why do you feel that the "groundbreaking" quote is about Mary specifically?    Or am I misunderstanding?

That's what I'm asking myself now, too, because I never made the connection between "groundbreaking" and Mary and the baby. I always thought this was meant as a general statement and it can mean anything, basically. Maybe even something we don't know anything about yet.

 

Last edited by SolarSystem (August 27, 2016 10:16 am)


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?

"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

August 27, 2016 10:23 am  #4522


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

As for me, I never thought groundbreaking could be associated with Mary. I have two or three ideas what it might be but she is not among them. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

August 27, 2016 10:24 am  #4523


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

SusiGo wrote:

As for me, I never thought groundbreaking could be associated with Mary. I have two or three ideas what it might be but she is not among them. 

I think I know about idea No 1 but what are two and three?


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I still believe that love conquers all!

     

"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

August 27, 2016 10:30 am  #4524


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

EMP and/or something about the childhood/youth/family history of the Holmes brothers.


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

August 27, 2016 10:33 am  #4525


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

All of those would be good.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

August 27, 2016 10:47 am  #4526


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

Definitely.


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I still believe that love conquers all!

     

"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

August 27, 2016 10:48 am  #4527


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

Let's just hope that they don't consider a major character death as 'groundbreaking'...


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?

"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

August 27, 2016 10:49 am  #4528


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

Didn't they try to fool us with this 'death of a major character' thing last time?
When CAM had his brain blown out.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

August 27, 2016 10:49 am  #4529


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

I do not see why they should. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

August 27, 2016 11:00 am  #4530


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

Amanda suggested that something similar had been done before.   The previous most "groundbreaking", "television history" thing that they've done was the fall at the end of TRF.  I remember it well, even though I wasn't watching Sherlock at the time, because it made national news.   So maybe that's a starting point for looking at the kind of thing they might be doing in S4. 

 

August 27, 2016 11:01 am  #4531


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

Death of mother and child might fit that category...though so would death of a lead character!(Aargh)


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

August 27, 2016 11:05 am  #4532


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

Why was the fall 'groundbreaking'...? Serious question, because I never considered it to be groundbreaking.

As for the major character death, I'm not saying that I'm having any hard evidence for this, it's just that in my mind I keep coming back to the fact that we have two Watsons now. And one of them seems to be presented to us as being far more clever than the other one. And I can't help myself, but exchanging one for the other would be extremely groundbreaking. John dies, Mary stays with Sherlock.


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?

"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

August 27, 2016 11:05 am  #4533


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

Please correct me, but I would consider "groundbreaking" and "making history" as having a basically positive connotation? And while playing brilliant mind games could be considered as such, the death of a woman and her child IMO cannot be described in these terms. Do you honestly believe they would say, "ha, we did something really groundbreaking here, killed Mary and the baby off?" 

@Solar: As I have said before, I do not see any evidence for that, neither in setlock or in the show itself. And I would not call it groundbreaking, but TV ratings suicide but this is just me. 

Last edited by SusiGo (August 27, 2016 11:07 am)


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

August 27, 2016 11:07 am  #4534


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

I know, not a pleasant thought!


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

August 27, 2016 11:24 am  #4535


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

SusiGo wrote:

@Solar: As I have said before, I do not see any evidence for that, neither in setlock or in the show itself. And I would not call it groundbreaking, but TV ratings suicide but this is just me. 

Like I said, I don't have any hard evidence for this, either. And I agree that this could be ratings suicide. I'm just not convinced that Mofftiss would not do a story they believe in because of possibly bad ratings. (Of course I don't know how much say the BBC would have in something like this.)
(And talking about ratings, that might also be a problem with the EMP. I'm not convinced the general audience would get it/like it/accept it.)
 


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?

"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

August 27, 2016 11:25 am  #4536


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

SolarSystem wrote:

Why was the fall 'groundbreaking'...? Serious question, because I never considered it to be groundbreaking.

I think "groundbreaking" is a word that's bandied about a lot even when it's not clear what ground is actually being broken, but anyway, here's an article describing it as http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2013-07-19/sherlock-steven-moffat-and-mark-gatiss-open-up-about-human-series-three .  I got the idea that it was groundbreaking in that it was so much talked about - not just on social media but in the national news.   It was one of those "Who shot JR?" moments. 

Mind you, I suppose you could say the same about the Great British Bake-Off final.  So maybe it's the combination of the media attention along with the unsolved puzzle left for two years.   I hope we're not going to have to wait years to resolve something in S4.
 

 

August 27, 2016 11:27 am  #4537


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

Personally I would take that, if I knew we were definitely getting S 5!


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

August 27, 2016 11:28 am  #4538


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

Solar: I agree with what you say about EMP. 

But what we would be groundbreaking about replacing John by a woman (has been done at least once, in "Elementary)? Why would this make TV history, apart from a momentary shock, probably followed by disappointment? 

Last edited by SusiGo (August 27, 2016 11:29 am)


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

August 27, 2016 11:29 am  #4539


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

I'm glad you reminded me of that!


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

August 27, 2016 11:30 am  #4540


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

As for the fall being groundbreaking - in a way it was, Solar. Because it was the first time, I think, that Sherlock Holmes committed suicide. Which is quite a big thing. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

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