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May 24, 2016 7:53 am  #3781


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

besleybean wrote:

But wouldn't it reflect real life?
The vast majority of widowers do at least start dating again, if not remarry.
As I see Mary as the love of John's life, i would like to feel he would never meet anybody else to match her.
But it seems neither fair nor realistic to expect John to live as a monk.
I mean in TV land they can do what they like and I would like John to remain single, but who knows?

So, what you have is a void that Sherlock can never, ever fill. 

So John lives out his life, miserable  because his wife is dead. -- or he finds another --palatable to fans--(Maybe.) How much of this is women's romance/wishful thinking  (no-one can ever take my place) and--- here's another question: why does (the vast majority of fanon) expect SHERLOCK to live as a sad, pining monk-- when fandom ( broadly speaking) is willing to let John bond with whomever it thinks might make him "happy"? 

John can be with other people, but Sherlock can not??? Not fair!

Last edited by RavenMorganLeigh (May 24, 2016 7:55 am)

 

May 24, 2016 8:04 am  #3782


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

IMO this "love of his life" trope with regard to Mary is supported by nothing in Canon or the show.
And if you take a look at the Ritchie films, you will see what a loving and supportive marriage between equals looks like. And it looks quite different than what we get in "Sherlock". 


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

May 24, 2016 8:12 am  #3783


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

I think that in this adaptation in particular, it's clear that Sherlock suppresses romantic/sexual feelings and chooses to be alone.   It's one way in which he's set apart from people and uniquely Sherlock, and pairing him up with somebody would change that.   I'm not saying that Moftiss couldn't change that - of course, they could, but it's something they seem to have set up over the course of the series (it's brought up in the first episode, and again, in TAB), and it would be a huge change.  I don't expect him to be sad and pining all the time (although there are times when he is), but the monk part is something that is established by the writers, rather than something that we are wishing for him.  (If he was a real person, of course I'd hope that he'd let go of that repression and experience a bit more of what the world has to offer, but I kind of like him how he is as a fictional person).

Apart from that, I don't think it's absolutely necessary for everybody to be with a romantic life partner.   The truth is that many people aren't, for all sorts of reasons including bereavement.  It doesn't mean that they can't live worthwhile, fulfilled lives.   I have wondered if Sherlock might give up his repression as he ages, and end up getting together with somebody when he's older, but I can also see Sherlock and John living together into retirement. 

Last edited by Liberty (May 24, 2016 8:13 am)

 

May 24, 2016 8:32 am  #3784


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

SusiGo wrote:

IMO this "love of his life" trope with regard to Mary is supported by nothing in Canon or the show.
And if you take a look at the Ritchie films, you will see what a loving and supportive marriage between equals looks like. And it looks quite different than what we get in "Sherlock". 

 
Yes, thank you. This.


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Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.


"If you're not reading the subtext then hell mend you"  -  Steven Moffat
"Love conquers all" Benedict Cumberbatch on Sherlock's and John's relationship
"This is a show about a detective, his best friend, his wife, their baby and their dog" - Nobody. Ever.

 

May 24, 2016 12:07 pm  #3785


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

Side note:  What I see in S1 and S2 is John dating women and failing badly at it.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Proud President and Founder of the OSAJ.  
Honorary German  
"Anyone who takes himself too seriously always runs the risk of looking ridiculous; anyone who can consistently laugh at himself does not".
 -Vaclav Havel 
"Life is full of wonder, Love is never wrong."   Melissa Ethridge

I ship it harder than Mrs. Hudson.
    
 
 

May 24, 2016 12:09 pm  #3786


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

Agreed. And in HLV we see him discontented and argumentative only weeks after the wedding. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

May 24, 2016 4:03 pm  #3787


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

Well John wasn't too bad on the dating front, he bagged a wife out of it.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

May 24, 2016 4:07 pm  #3788


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

besleybean wrote:

Well John wasn't too bad on the dating front, he bagged a wife out of it.

But we didn't get to see how he did it. Maybe she fell for him because he was wounded. Maybe she has a thing for lonely, broken man. Who knows about her motivation?


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I still believe that love conquers all!

     

"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

May 24, 2016 4:10 pm  #3789


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

Or just maybe Mary fell head over heels in love with John and thought he was the best thing ever to happen to her...she certainly didn't want to lose him and appears to have given him a child.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

May 24, 2016 5:15 pm  #3790


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

besleybean wrote:

Or just maybe Mary fell head over heels in love with John and thought he was the best thing ever to happen to her...she certainly didn't want to lose him and appears to have given him a child.

Your ideas don't contradict mine, I'd say.


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I still believe that love conquers all!

     

"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

May 24, 2016 5:16 pm  #3791


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

I can agree with that.
But I feel the love is entirely mutual.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

May 24, 2016 5:19 pm  #3792


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

I stand by my statement about Series 1 and 2.    John does very badly at dating and trying to pick up women.
And we must consider the possibility that he ended up with Mary because Sherlock was "dead" and she was in the right place at the right time.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Proud President and Founder of the OSAJ.  
Honorary German  
"Anyone who takes himself too seriously always runs the risk of looking ridiculous; anyone who can consistently laugh at himself does not".
 -Vaclav Havel 
"Life is full of wonder, Love is never wrong."   Melissa Ethridge

I ship it harder than Mrs. Hudson.
    
 
 

May 24, 2016 5:20 pm  #3793


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

If that was the scenario, would he not have just chosen another man?


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

May 24, 2016 5:26 pm  #3794


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

I don't think he's that bad at dating - he does seem to manage to attract a few people and have repeat dates too.  It's a lot better than some people!  (I'd say Molly does worse than him, if anything).  But now it's established, I don't think we need to see it again, unless it's going to be part of the story. 

 

May 24, 2016 5:27 pm  #3795


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

besleybean wrote:

If that was the scenario, would he not have just chosen another man?

I think I already told you about my heterosexual female friend who fell in love with a woman. She is straight, she says, it was just this special person. Her one exception. They are married for ten years now.


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I still believe that love conquers all!

     

"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

May 24, 2016 6:18 pm  #3796


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

SusiGo wrote:

IMO this "love of his life" trope with regard to Mary is supported by nothing in Canon or the show.
And if you take a look at the Ritchie films, you will see what a loving and supportive marriage between equals looks like. And it looks quite different than what we get in "Sherlock". 

Yep! And this is why I have trouble with any idea that John, Mary, and Baby are this happy, happy, happy family-- when that's not really borne out onscreen. And-- it really doesn't make sense that John would EVER be happy with Mary, with all that she has done-- if we still think that he's a moral person! 

 

May 24, 2016 6:24 pm  #3797


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

SusiGo wrote:

I think it is not so much about her dying but about her leaving the show or not. They could come up with all sorts of solutions - escape, divorce, imprisonment, witness protection, whatever. But if she remains, the whole Holmes/Watson dynamic will be irrevocably changed and - IMO - not in a good way. 

I agree. 100%.

 

May 24, 2016 6:28 pm  #3798


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

Schmiezi wrote:

besleybean wrote:

If that was the scenario, would he not have just chosen another man?

I think I already told you about my heterosexual female friend who fell in love with a woman. She is straight, she says, it was just this special person. Her one exception. They are married for ten years now.

There is also still the possibility that John is bisexual and could've fallen for a man or a woman.  However, as I said before, Mary was in the right place at the right time.
 


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Proud President and Founder of the OSAJ.  
Honorary German  
"Anyone who takes himself too seriously always runs the risk of looking ridiculous; anyone who can consistently laugh at himself does not".
 -Vaclav Havel 
"Life is full of wonder, Love is never wrong."   Melissa Ethridge

I ship it harder than Mrs. Hudson.
    
 
 

May 24, 2016 6:32 pm  #3799


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

Or, it could just be that Mary is the love of John's life and there is the possibility that he is straight.
I too have a formerly hetero friend(3 kids) who recently came out as lesbian...
This doesn't tell me anything about BBC Sherlock.

Last edited by besleybean (May 24, 2016 7:11 pm)


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

May 24, 2016 7:09 pm  #3800


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

I think if Mary should die we would see John in a very dark place for a very long time. We have already seen how hard he takes the "death" of someone close to him and I don't see any reason (as of yet) why this time should be much different. He might at some point start seeing other people again, but I do not think it would be anytime soon.


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