BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Symbolism in TAB

mrshouse · January 5, 2016 3:27 pm

Hm, I like that, Moth.

besleybean · January 5, 2016 6:53 pm

I really don't see that at all.
The whole episode was about Moriarty to me.
Even if he's dead, it's about his legacy.
Unless of course that involves Mary.
I wonder if she's still working, or if she has time to do the super villain stuff.
She's got very handy hacking skills, for introducing a virus...via code.

Harriet · January 5, 2016 7:48 pm

Mothonthemantel wrote:
Yes lily and Matt and Susie posted some pics now of the scene in the other thread.
In the scene Moriarty comes in as the ghost bride and Sherlock calls her Lady Carmichael .
Just the same as when he called Mary Lady Smallwood in HLV .
The viel lifts and at first its Moriarty saying your not making sense Sherlock your dreaming etc
The scene warps and becomes Mary on the plane saying your not making sense Sherlock your dreaming etc.
From other scenes its clear in Sherlocks mind that he fears being alone and one of the similarities of Mary and Moriarty are that they both seperated him from John.
Sherlock has already dealt with Moriarty but he cant deal with Mary ,even though in Sherlocks mind the mariage seems doomed , John has to do that.
Symbolically John kicking Moriarty off the cliff is John ending things with Mary.
Sherlock acknowledging John is very smart and John knowing when he is in a story may be a hint that a plan is already in motion.

Impressing! Well observed and proven!

Lilythiell · January 5, 2016 7:57 pm

Oh yes, I agree very, very much with all of this.

KeepersPrice · January 5, 2016 8:12 pm

All through TAB I was noticing the many times reflections were captured in the mirror over the mantle in the 221B scenes. Their full reflections weren't shown, just parts of their bodies; but it always caught my attention. First, because I was trying to see where the camera might be hiding. But second, because the reflections in the mirror seemed to symbolize what the show was about - "Through the Looking Glass", "Through a Glass Darkly", parallel realities, reflections, hidden things, doppelgangers, doubles. All very intriguing.

Tobe just mentioned to me that the transparency of the greenhouse glass (which, yes, possibly brings transparency to hidden emotions) also was very similar to the large picture window of Angelo's where they first sat and discussed relationships while waiting for a cabbie who had already killed a number of people just like the 'Bride'. Gotta love these parallels with the original series.

besleybean · January 5, 2016 8:15 pm

And if you think about it, in the crypt, Sherlock, John and Mary are standing looking through a kind of window...well a gap, at least!

nakahara · January 5, 2016 9:08 pm

Sherlock´s room at Baker Street had an image of a skull on a wall, just as in the modern version.
But the closer look on that skull revealed that it´s actually an image of a woman looking at herself in the mirror:

This image is symbolic on so many levels:

a) introspection - the sign that Sherlock looks at himself inside his own head during the episode and meditates about the issues troubling him,

b) an allusion on the case he is solving - the actual perpetrator is the murderous organisation, revealed to consist entirely of women,

c) Sherlock´s keen fear of women and the sign that he sees them as dangerous and deadly,

d) the tweak from Mofftiss - "things are not what they seem in TAB",

e) as was already mentioned, the allusion on doppelgangers, ghosts and spooks that lurk in our subconscioussness,

f) a woman - Mary - who is not what she seems to be,

etc.

A very powerful symbol, indeed!

besleybean · January 5, 2016 9:11 pm

That's a really good analysis and possibly surpasses what Steven said about the painting on his set tour!

Lilythiell · January 5, 2016 9:14 pm

Nakahara, I find that your analysis of the painting is really accurate.
I couldn't agree more.

besleybean · January 5, 2016 9:22 pm

It could just as easily mean Mary having to face up to herself.

besleybean · January 6, 2016 7:49 pm

Abstinence is no guarantee of immortality...yes, something like that.

tehanu · January 8, 2016 7:31 am

nakahara wrote:
Sherlock´s room at Baker Street had an image of a skull on a wall, just as in the modern version.
But the closer look on that skull revealed that it´s actually an image of a woman looking at herself in the mirror:

Loosely related, and also related to the idea that glass can be either reflecting or (as that greenhouse glass) transparent: the abominable bride which they both see is literally a mirror image. For Jim, I know, I just wonder how far-reaching conclusions about Jim (and whoever seems to have hacked England in his name) we can draw based on Emelia and the women who used her image.

tehanu · January 8, 2016 7:35 am

tonnaree wrote:
What do you guys think this symbolizes?

*giggles madly*

Right. Apparently, guns stand in for penises at various points in the whole show and especially here. What, then, is the Abominable Bride doing with a shotgun? a shortcut for "Some women have more balls than you, gentlemen"?

tehanu · January 8, 2016 7:43 am

Molly's moustache made me think that a moustache was a general symbol for masculinity. Quite a while before TAB, Loudest Subtext in Television wrote meta about it standing for male straightness, actually, and the unfortunate stereotypes would have made that the same.

Holmes doesn't have one, of course, and neither does Watson-the-soldier, but the later Watson does and both are sort of necessary because that's the way thay have always been in canon. The episode lampshades that a few times I think with references to "the illustrator" and Watson saying he had to grow one so he would be recognized. (Is that even a real reason? Would he care to be recognized?)

But, what is Sherlock's subconscious doing concocting a version of John with a frankly exaggerated moustache when he prefers his doctors clean shaven? Just giving in to the era, or also fantasizing about how manly John is, or worrying about his orientation?

Last edited by tehanu (January 8, 2016 7:56 am)

Liberty · January 8, 2016 7:53 am

I'm not sure about that one - I remember there was a time when moustaches were more associated being gay.

tehanu · January 8, 2016 7:56 am

Liberty wrote:
I'm not sure about that one - I remember there was a time when moustaches were more associated being gay.

But not that time, possibly? She quoted a book on Victorian male homosexuality and a court case where a man charged with buggery actually grew facial hair in jail to help his case.

Liberty · January 8, 2016 8:03 am

No, but Sherlock himself is in modern times. I suspect it's a reference to canon.

Mothonthemantel · January 8, 2016 2:24 pm

Mothonthemantel wrote:
John's tie pin . Red for the first few scenes and then blue. Red for Mary , Blue for Sherlock ?

Hehe tonnaree the guns were so very obvious , but lol when questioned on sexuality Sherlock asks to be passed a revolver!

To correct my own post - I have since watched again and noticed John wears a white tie pin in the scene with Mike Stamford. So we have red, white and blue tie pins for John , symbolizing England ?
Could maybe tie in , , with the three Johns ideas too.

Last edited by Mothonthemantel (January 8, 2016 2:25 pm)

besleybean · January 8, 2016 4:25 pm

Gay 'clones' of the 1980s, marked themselves by sporting tashes.
Doesn't really go these days and I suspect it didn't in Victorian times.

Liberty · January 8, 2016 7:18 pm

What I mean is that moustachioed John doesn't exist - he's a creation of Sherlock's. And Sherlock would be influenced by more modern culture, just as we are. What's odd (if Sherlock was really trying to create an accurate Victorian John) is that army John doesn't have a 'tache.

Of course, Sherlock could also be thinking of John when he first saw him after Moriarty's suicide (when he had a moustache). In the mind palace, though, John has a much more flattering moustache!