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January 4, 2016 10:34 am  #401


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

- I also only just noticed that it's a female pilot on the plane!

I may be wrong as I have only watched the episode once so far, but isn't the female pilot the same actress who plays Lady Carmichael?? I remember that's what I thought when I saw her at least.


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Just like old times...


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January 4, 2016 10:35 am  #402


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

Oh yes sorry I knew that, but I hadn't noticed she was actually the plane pilot!


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January 4, 2016 10:43 am  #403


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

Punch me in the face wrote:

Vhanja wrote:

ancientsgate wrote:


Christmas?  Where was Christmas?  I must've missed that, too. Christmas?
 

Well... there was snow in the intro scene? http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/tongue.png

Yes. Snow. What sounds like people singing a Christmas carol. John asking the newspapers guy how's the Blue Carbuncle going (and The Blue Carbuncle is a Christmas story), and then that same guy shouts "Merry Christmas, Mr Holmes!"
 

The bit of dialogue that gave  the biggest clue to it being Christmas for me was

Lestrade. 'Just to wish you the complements of the season..............Merry Christmas.'
Sherlock. 'Merry Christmas.'
John. 'Merry Christmas.'
Mary. 'Merry Christmas.'

http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/happy.png


 

 

January 4, 2016 10:46 am  #404


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

Exactly!
Who sees but doesn't observe?!
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January 4, 2016 11:05 am  #405


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

Tee Hee.


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January 4, 2016 11:26 am  #406


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

Punch me in the face wrote:

- I also only just noticed that it's a female pilot on the plane!

I may be wrong as I have only watched the episode once so far, but isn't the female pilot the same actress who plays Lady Carmichael?? I remember that's what I thought when I saw her at least.

Yes, that's "Lady Carmichael".
No doubt Sherlock used her face in his Mind Palace because she was flying him to his death (at least, if the exile hadn't lasted 4 minutes), and Lady Carmichael is the one character at the center of the women's organisation which brings death to nefarious men.


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"It’s not a ‘gang’ show, it’s the Sherlock and John show. It’s about developing their characters and their relationship, and the characters drawn into their orbit.”  Steven Moffat


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January 4, 2016 11:32 am  #407


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

10 Commandments of Detective fiction, written by Ronald Knox is quite interesting.
Especially points 2 and 10 : "all supernatural or preternatural agencies are ruled out as a matter of course" and "twin brothers, and doubles generally, must not appear unless we have been duly prepared for them."


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I'd be lost without my blogger.
"It’s not a ‘gang’ show, it’s the Sherlock and John show. It’s about developing their characters and their relationship, and the characters drawn into their orbit.”  Steven Moffat


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January 4, 2016 11:35 am  #408


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

Oh, good catch, Punch Me!  I didn't notice that! 

Also fits well with the mind palace conversation with John - he had a real woman in mind. 

 

January 4, 2016 11:38 am  #409


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

Yes . It is interesting to think that Sherlock cast all the people he knew into roles for his mind palace construct . I wonder if some of the people we don't know in the special will turn up as people Sherlock knows in S04.
I wonder why Mary wasn't pregnant, and there was no baby .Maybe the baby thing just hasn't registered in Sherlocks mind properly , but that seems very odd as he was the one that noticed it first.
Also Mary had to go disguised to get into  221b , wouldn't  Mrs Hudson let John's wife in ? Or is the disguise a ref to the pregnancy.


"Man may not be degraded  to being a machine by being denied to be a ghost in the machine."
It's just transport. The virus in the hard drive . However impossible .Must be the truth.
 

January 4, 2016 11:43 am  #410


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

I think Mary was playing a little trick on John.


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January 4, 2016 11:47 am  #411


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

I took it that the disguise was for John's benefit - the suggestion was that he was neglecting her and spending his time with Sherlock, and the only way she could catch his attention was through posing as a client.   I think it's also an allusion to Sherlock coming across Mary in black in Magnussen's office.   He identifies her from the perfume (although he failed to do so in real life!).   Later, when she tells LeStrade to leave, it looks almost as if she's raising a gun to shoot him.   Also, making her a client was how Sherlock and John dealt with Mary after Sherlock exposed her. 

I don't know about the baby.  Somebody mentioned that Mary looked pregnant in the mind palace - I found it difficult to see. 

 

January 4, 2016 11:51 am  #412


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

Yes Sherlock says about the impish sense of humour , perhaps Sherlock is referencing that Mary pretended to be someone else to marry John in his mind .Is it funny to Sherlock that she was a spy cia agent and assassin and not a nurse and John didn't notice. Probably. 


"Man may not be degraded  to being a machine by being denied to be a ghost in the machine."
It's just transport. The virus in the hard drive . However impossible .Must be the truth.
 

January 4, 2016 11:56 am  #413


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

Sherlock doesn't even notice until late on (in the mind palace, and in real life!). 

Another thing - Sherlock alludes to he and Mary being John's parents: "don't they grow up fast?".  I felt that alluded to the comment about John and Mary being Sherlock's parents in TSOT - funny how the father and child are switched.   

Last edited by Liberty (January 4, 2016 12:01 pm)

 

January 4, 2016 11:57 am  #414


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

I don't really see Sherlock being so harsh.
Mary's past escaped his notice and he knew that.
He also didn't pick up on the 'Cam" clue at the wedding.
And yes, he didn't immediately think of her in relation to the perfume...
I honestly don't think he would have expected John to pick up on those details.
Though as Sherlock explains, John did subconsciously pick a woman of action, an adrenaline junkie like himself.


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January 4, 2016 12:02 pm  #415


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

Yes but he knows Mary tricked he and John for a long time with the nurse disguise and while he does probably think it funny John didn't observe it , he does seem quite annoyed at himself for not observing.
Remember Mary didn't do anything herself , Sherlock imagined her doing it because it's something she actually did do.

Last edited by Mothonthemantel (January 4, 2016 12:05 pm)


"Man may not be degraded  to being a machine by being denied to be a ghost in the machine."
It's just transport. The virus in the hard drive . However impossible .Must be the truth.
 

January 4, 2016 12:05 pm  #416


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

It isn't a disguise...she is actually a nurse!
Well unless somebody like Mycroft got her the job, or she faked her CV...
But I'm not aware of any suggestion that she isn't actually a nurse.

I simply think it's as we've said:
In his Mind Palace, Sherlock's Victorian equivalent to modern Mary, is a nurse who is also a suffrgette who works for Mycroft...
What we don't know is whether he thinks she works for Mycroft in the modern setting.

Last edited by besleybean (January 4, 2016 12:08 pm)


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January 4, 2016 12:40 pm  #417


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

Yes I understand the Mary has many jobs and disguise timing jokes , my curiosity was at the lack of pregnancy with mind palace Mary. As far as I can tell she is not and it probably have been mentioned if she was.
I linked it to the disguise because I have been reading some of the threads here where people think maybe she faked being pregnant .But I don't think that is possible but it is odd Sherlock didn't include it in his mp.
We shall probably know about the baby soon when they start filming in spring.
 


"Man may not be degraded  to being a machine by being denied to be a ghost in the machine."
It's just transport. The virus in the hard drive . However impossible .Must be the truth.
 

January 4, 2016 12:46 pm  #418


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

I can only assume Sherlock didn't think Mary's pregnancy important.
Though the other more obvious solution is that it would have been far less acceptable for Mary to be pregnant on marriage, in the Victorian era.
I would suggest Watson would lose his medical practice, because of the scandal.
They had only been married months I think, so maybe it was a bit early for them to start a family.
Maybe Mary wanted to continue working.


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January 4, 2016 1:42 pm  #419


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

She's in very early pregnancy in TSOT, though, so the baby could just be seen as premature - in fact as long as they were married when the baby was born, it would be legitimate.   I'm not sure how common it was for women to keep working after marriage, never mind through pregnancy (I know some of my grandmother's generation had to give up work when they married - as in they seemed to be automatically no longer employed!). 

Of course, there's an odd timeline in the mind palace, obviously - I would tend to think that the characters are where they are in the present day, but that's not necessarily the case.   Mary could have had the baby already and left it with a nanny.   Or maybe she didn't get pregnant in Sherlock's version.  Or maybe Sherlock just didn't want to include the baby? 

We really need a commentary!

 

January 4, 2016 1:45 pm  #420


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

@Liberty I kind of understand them not giving us one...possibly much will be answered in any S4 commentaries...I'm just being impatient!
Did you see what I'd said about now understanding why the commentary team were silent on the tarmac scene?!

Last edited by besleybean (January 4, 2016 1:45 pm)


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