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January 3, 2016 8:41 pm  #381


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

I dunno.
But I saw this episode as the classic, Gothic,Victorian, Christmas ghost story.


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January 3, 2016 8:47 pm  #382


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

kgreen20 wrote:

I am not a Johnlocker, since I will neither read nor write slash.  

And BB said she isn't either. Which is fine. But the writers gave us gobs of chemistry between them from the get-go. They actually dated each other back in the early episodes. then the writers acted all surprised when so many people climbed on the Johnlock bandwagon the way we did, acting all innocent like, "Really? They're just friiiiieeeeends...."

To drag this back on topic, I didn't get much chemistry off this episode at all. I wonder if the show-runners wanted the attraction between Sherlock and John calmed down, to take a huge step back, so the writing and acting both reflected that (and yes, I realize we'll never know one way or the other if that's true). Yes, S/J had some "intimate" scenes wherein they talked about stuff, and there was the silly, obvious, throw-away line about, "Why don't you just elope!"  but I didn't get any waves of chemistry coming off the characters (any of them, come to think of it) at all this time around, not like I have in the past. I missed it.

 

January 3, 2016 8:51 pm  #383


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

Vhanja wrote:

Not sure if it's only me, but I felt that Sherlock looked very different on the plane in TAB then he did in HLV. There is something off with his eyes, his skin colour... is it just clever make-up/lighting/acting? When he tears up the list and asks Mycroft to pardon him like a "proper big brother" he doesn't really look like himself at all.

Do we know when the scenes were shot? We know that the cemetery scene was done during the TAB filming, not when shooting HLV. So maybe they did the plane scenes a year ago as well with Benedict wearing a wig. We know there is a wig, Clare has tweeted photos, afaik. 

 


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

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January 3, 2016 8:57 pm  #384


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

Liberty wrote:

He'd better be dead.   I'm not going to be happy if they've done a whole episode to confirm that he's dead, only to bring him back.  For goodness sake.

Don't try to give those writers an ultimatum; they will do exactly as they please.  As long as they're having fun with the show and getting congratulated for the cleverness of their writing, they will continue doing things that the fandom hates.

And I do like Moriarty as a villain and think Andrew is great, BUT ... I think he's maybe a little bit overdone.

I think Moriarty was as slimy nasty unlikable as he was in TAB because he only existed in Sherlock's mind, and Sherlock's mind had made him into a caricature of himself--  that actually can happen in RL to anyone who's faced down an enemy, been forced to betray the people they hold most dear in the whole world because of that enemy, and who always have to be watching their backs, looking out for god-knows-who that the enemy might have hired to finish the work after their own death. The enemy can loom larger and be stranger in memory than he ever did in RL.

....... Moriarty's big story was really TRF, but he's been in just about every other episode, one way or another ......

They like Andrew, so I presume that's why they keep hiring him to do new stuff. Just as they like Amanda Abbington, so we'll now be seeing her in every episode as long as Sherlock exists. I doubt we've seen the last of Moriarty's face.

 

January 3, 2016 8:59 pm  #385


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

SusiGo wrote:

Do we know when the scenes were shot? We know that the cemetery scene was done during the TAB filming, not when shooting HLV. So maybe they did the plane scenes a year ago as well with Benedict wearing a wig. We know there is a wig, Clare has tweeted photos, afaik. 

 

Yeah, they are probably shot around the same time, but it's not the hair I noticed. It's... everything else.

Edit: About Moriarty, he is Sherlock's biggest nemesis. And in those kind of stories, the nemesis never really dies until the show is over, does he? (They've even said that they skipped Moran, because they didn't think that "the second to most dangerous villain" would be that interesting).

Last edited by Vhanja (January 3, 2016 9:01 pm)


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January 3, 2016 9:02 pm  #386


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

besleybean wrote:

I dunno.
But I saw this episode as the classic, Gothic,Victorian, Christmas ghost story.

Christmas?  Where was Christmas?  I must've missed that, too. Christmas?
 

 

January 3, 2016 9:03 pm  #387


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

ancientsgate wrote:

besleybean wrote:

I dunno.
But I saw this episode as the classic, Gothic,Victorian, Christmas ghost story.

Christmas?  Where was Christmas?  I must've missed that, too. Christmas?
 

Well... there was snow in the intro scene? http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/tongue.png


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January 3, 2016 9:03 pm  #388


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

I mean I thought it was traditional in Victorian times to tell ghost stories at Xmas.


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January 3, 2016 9:18 pm  #389


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

Vhanja wrote:

   Yeah, they are probably shot around the same time, but it's not the hair I noticed. It's... everything else.

The next stop?  The Twilight Zone.

 

January 3, 2016 9:20 pm  #390


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

SusiGo wrote:

Vhanja wrote:

Not sure if it's only me, but I felt that Sherlock looked very different on the plane in TAB then he did in HLV. There is something off with his eyes, his skin colour... is it just clever make-up/lighting/acting? When he tears up the list and asks Mycroft to pardon him like a "proper big brother" he doesn't really look like himself at all.

Do we know when the scenes were shot? We know that the cemetery scene was done during the TAB filming, not when shooting HLV. So maybe they did the plane scenes a year ago as well with Benedict wearing a wig. We know there is a wig, Clare has tweeted photos, afaik. 

 

And there I thought they were so clever and filmed the present time scenes together with HLV so that nobody notices any present time shooting during TAB :o
I actually compared the scenes on the plane. Well, they had me fooled. The mood was very different, but I thought Ben looked the same :o


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January 3, 2016 9:20 pm  #391


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

ancientsgate wrote:

besleybean wrote:

I dunno.
But I saw this episode as the classic, Gothic,Victorian, Christmas ghost story.

Christmas?  Where was Christmas?  I must've missed that, too. Christmas?
 

They mentioned it at least once when Lestrade entered, and I think there was also something like Christmas decoration.
 


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January 3, 2016 9:45 pm  #392


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

besleybean wrote:

I mean I thought it was traditional in Victorian times to tell ghost stories at Xmas.

I didn't know that, but Dickens' A Christmas Carol is a very famous Christmas ghost story.

As for Hallowe'en, I've always got the impression that it wasn't much of a thing in England until recently (although it was always an event in Scotland and Ireland).  And I think the more recent English traditions have come right over from the US, instead of from Scotland next door (trick or treating instead of guising!).  So yes, it would make sense for a Victorian English ghost story to be set at Christmas, I suppose.

And Mycroft is eating Christmas pudding!
 

Last edited by Liberty (January 3, 2016 9:57 pm)

 

January 4, 2016 1:53 am  #393


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

I'm with you guys, I will need to watch it ten times before I can get my head around everything. I came out of the cinema wanting to talk to someone about it but couldn't! No one in this family (my husband's NZ family) watch Sherlock and I couldn't even get online to chat here.

It was actually shown on free to air tv here last night too, but because of family reasons I couldn't . Can't wait to get home and somehow watch it again!

In the meantime, does anyone want to help me remember the sequence of scenes? I have a pretty bad memory.

So far I've got:

1. John Watson voiceover as he gets shot in the battle of Maiwand, interspersed with John having nightmares.
2. John limps down the street and is stopped by Mike Stamford.
3. Stamford and John drinking in Criterion bar, John mentions needing a place to live/flatmate
4. Stamford takes John to Barts to introduce him to Holmes - corpse whipping, excellent reflexes etc.
5. Montage opening titles Victorian style.
6. John chats to The Strand seller about The Blue Carbuncle, drives off in carriage
7. Holmes and Watson arrive home at Baker Street

To be continued, gotta go


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January 4, 2016 2:31 am  #394


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

Vhanja wrote:

ancientsgate wrote:

besleybean wrote:

I dunno.
But I saw this episode as the classic, Gothic,Victorian, Christmas ghost story.

Christmas?  Where was Christmas?  I must've missed that, too. Christmas?
 

Well... there was snow in the intro scene? http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/tongue.png

Yes. Snow. What sounds like people singing a Christmas carol. John asking the newspapers guy how's the Blue Carbuncle going (and The Blue Carbuncle is a Christmas story), and then that same guy shouts "Merry Christmas, Mr Holmes!"
 


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Just like old times...


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January 4, 2016 2:44 am  #395


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

Oh wow, I just realised there's 22 pages of this thread I need to read, I'm on my crappy mobile so this is going to take a while! Ignore my previous comment...


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January 4, 2016 4:20 am  #396


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

I have no problem thinking of this as a Christmas story.  The whole episode is a bit of
a dream-like gift to fans.

Love that Moriarty is "really" dead.    I also love:
"It's NEVER twins!"    said twice.
Never say never?    Hmmmmmmmm.    Methinks the Sherlock doth protest too much.
Or maybe it's just the drugs talking.


And shall we just ignore that Mary is still a cold hearted murderer?   Yes, let's.  It's Christmas.

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January 4, 2016 10:13 am  #397


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

Excuse me? I think you're forgetting Sherlock is the murderer!
Anyhow, just watched for my third time.
Don't worry, I didn't take many notes this time.
I did have a few other thoughts, but may slot them into relevant threads.
-It dawned on me that John offers Mary the client chair, just like in HLV.
- Then Lestrade delicately takes that chair, to allow the Watsons to sit together!
- Mary is left in John's chair alone, just like John in SIP and Mrs H comes to speak to her, just like with John in SIP.
- Mary goes off on an adventure, just like John in SIP, but Mary is summoned by Mycroft, whereas of course John was called by Sherlock.
- Oh I loved how the camera goes from the empty chair in 221B, to Mary's empty breakfast chair at the Watson's house.
- Mary clearly states to Mycroft " You can rely on me, Mr Holmes".
- I also only just noticed that it's a female pilot on the plane!
- It's Mary who says that Emilia had friends to help in her plot...presumably a nod to Moriarty's cohorts.
- "What happened to the other one?" is asked about the switching of the corpses...
- Of course Watson kicks Moriarty over the Falls...is that Moriarty being kicked into touch, out of the ball park, or any other metaphor you want to use?!

Last edited by besleybean (January 4, 2016 10:13 am)


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January 4, 2016 10:17 am  #398


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

We know that Mary IS a cold hearted murderer. All the wet jobs, and the freelance ... And we know what working for those agencies include, don't we? They never spared the innocent ...


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January 4, 2016 10:27 am  #399


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

That's an impressive list of observations, thank you for sharing Besleybean! I noticed the clients chair too but missed a lot of other details. This episode certainly needs to be watched several times.
I don't know if it's been mentioned here before but I can't be the only one who noticed that the noise during the train ride suddenly turned into the sound of a plane landing.


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January 4, 2016 10:32 am  #400


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

I think so...
What I did notice was the shaking room obviously being the plane landing...and I also think Sherlock is being the plane landing, as he dives off the falls.
What I keep meaning to say is: well(Liberty particularly!) it does explain why the team are absolutely silent on the commentary, when the tarmac scene is on.
It was SO annoying , I knew there had to be more to it!

@diva...if you scroll back, I have 2 very long posts with all of my other comments!


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