It is heavily implied that it was Mary who befriended Janine for the purpose of getting closer to CAM, which makes it likely that Mary had been after CAM for a while. CAM, in his turn, must have been after Mycroft for a while (I believe he became active during TRF, as that is when we first hear about “pressure points”, though at that point it seems that this is Moriarty’s idea). CAM knows that Mycroft is too clever for pressure points, except when it comes to Sherlock (a fact that Irene Adler and Moriarty have also used), so he has solid background information on everyone who is important to Sherlock (note that he also knows John and Mrs Hudson, but labels them “unimportant”, there is nothing to them that could take Mycroft down. Sherlock himself had recently been cleaned of all charges and was therefore not useful to him. It was only when Mary turned up that Mycroft was on the receiving end of a solid pressure point chain.

Good question. If you compare her reaction to Sherlock being alive with her reaction to Moriarty (maybe) being alive, the latter seems much stronger to me.
 

If Mary is Moran, then yes, she could have known that Sherlock was alive all along - in that case she could have really been planted to John´s side to await Sherlock´s return.

nakahara wrote:

If Mary is Moran, then yes, she could have known that Sherlock was alive all along - in that case she could have really been planted to John´s side to await Sherlock´s return.

Makes sense to me.
 

Lola Red wrote:

nakahara wrote:

If Mary is Moran, then yes, she could have known that Sherlock was alive all along - in that case she could have really been planted to John´s side to await Sherlock´s return.

But how would Moran/Mary know (if not from Moriarty himself). I thought the whole point of Lazarus was to fool Moriarty’s network, so Sherlock could dismantle it. That was why John had to grieve for two years or not? Because he could not be told so he could not give anything away and put himself in danger.
But I agree that if Mary was planted, it was by someone who knew Sherlock was alive. I cannot see how it would make sense otherwise to plant her there in the first place. Without Sherlock, John is more or less just a G.P./ex-solider.


 

 
I always saw the bit in TEH where Sherlock starts talking about his various markers, or "rats", as he calls them, as sort of foreshadowing the set-up with John and Mary. If one of the "rats" did something out of the ordinary, Sherlock would know something was up.

Just because Moriarty was dead, and his organization in disarray / non-functional, doesn't mean that there wouldn't be people out for revenge on Sherlock, which they would surely attempt to get by going after John. And, I'm sure, when Moriarty's people discovered their crime empire going down in flames due to interference and sabotage -- from a "ghost", they had to think that Sherlock might not be quite as dead as they'd been led to believe.

It would make sense to place Mary with the one person Sherlock would eventually return to, if indeed, he was alive.

nakahara wrote:

Lola Red wrote:

nakahara wrote:

If Mary is Moran, then yes, she could have known that Sherlock was alive all along - in that case she could have really been planted to John´s side to await Sherlock´s return.

But how would Moran/Mary know (if not from Moriarty himself). I thought the whole point of Lazarus was to fool Moriarty’s network, so Sherlock could dismantle it. That was why John had to grieve for two years or not? Because he could not be told so he could not give anything away and put himself in danger.
But I agree that if Mary was planted, it was by someone who knew Sherlock was alive. I cannot see how it would make sense otherwise to plant her there in the first place. Without Sherlock, John is more or less just a G.P./ex-solider.
 

Yes and it was precisely like this in the original. Sherlock faked his death and all the world was taken in, but the sniper Sebastian Moran saw Sherlock survive and he had his house observed in Sherlock´s absence to kill him upon his return... 

So it´s no obstacle to Morstan = Moran theory.
 

Nice! That works very well. 

nakahara wrote:

Lola Red wrote:

nakahara wrote:

If Mary is Moran, then yes, she could have known that Sherlock was alive all along - in that case she could have really been planted to John´s side to await Sherlock´s return.

But how would Moran/Mary know (if not from Moriarty himself). I thought the whole point of Lazarus was to fool Moriarty’s network, so Sherlock could dismantle it. That was why John had to grieve for two years or not? Because he could not be told so he could not give anything away and put himself in danger.
But I agree that if Mary was planted, it was by someone who knew Sherlock was alive. I cannot see how it would make sense otherwise to plant her there in the first place. Without Sherlock, John is more or less just a G.P./ex-solider.
 

Yes and it was precisely like this in the original. Sherlock faked his death and all the world was taken in, but the sniper Sebastian Moran saw Sherlock survive and he had his house observed in Sherlock´s absence to kill him upon his return... 

So it´s no obstacle to Morstan = Moran theory.
 

Still plenty of obstacles to Morstan=Moran (as with every theory), but I see what you mean. I’ll keep my eyes open for that possibility during next season. 

Personally, I loved Mary right up until the moment she shot Sherlock. I don't care that she didn't intend to kill him. I don't care that it was surgery. I care that she caused Sherlock to flatline - and that only he managed to bring himself back - and then she stood over his hospital bed and told him to keep quiet after almost sending him to the morgue. I care that she shot Sherlock despite knowing what his 'death' had done to John originally. I care that because of her, Sherlock had to sacrifice everything yet again - his freedom, nearly his life - to keep her safe for John's sake and that she in turn did not seem to care.

And yes, I know. Sherlock has lied. But Sherlock faked his death to protect John. Mary shot Sherlock to try and hide the truth about herself, to keep up the facade and the lie.

Sorry to sound so intense here, but yeah - this is the main reason why I am not happy with Series 3. 

(Hello by the way; new to the forum. )

TC x

But what I find much more irritating and even annoying is the fact that Sherlock easily forgives her. He even never ever criticizes her - and she almost killed him! So I'm not really angry at Mary, but at Sherlock. I just can't understand his "easy going" with Mary and her deed!

Actually, John's forgiveness of Mary bothers me more... I just can't understand how he could (a) believe the "surgery explanation, and (b) forgive someone who lied to him about who she was from the beginning of their relationship, then shot Sherlock to keep John from finding out the truth, when he's barely forgiven Sherlock for faking his death, even though it saved his life. On John's blog, he says that Sherlock did tell him about the snipers, and John said he didn't know if he'd ever fully trust Sherlock again, even though he understood why Sherlock had done it. But he forgave Mary. Uuuurrrrrgggghhhhh.

That actually does put a crimp in my johnlock.

Last edited by RavenMorganLeigh (August 15, 2015 11:50 pm)