BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Mary

NatureNoHumansNo · June 22, 2015 6:32 pm

After you, dear!

lil · June 23, 2015 2:39 pm

While the writers could clear Marys character up quite a bit I don't think they will.We seem to be getting more TPLOSH version , where it is more about the characters than the crime solving.
I think the writers like having the women as femme fatal types and there is quite a history of that surrounding Holmes and his distrust of women. Mr Gatiss seemed quite gleeful talking about that in the timeshift history of SH documentary quoting -the twinkle in the eye the arsenic in the soup-line.
Irene and Mary seem much more in the Madame Vallondon / enemy spy / deceiving distrustful women genre.I seem to remember something in canon that the woman Holmes thought most winning was a poisoner/serial killer.
So should Mary exit without any explanation , in a way it would make her a bit canon ish , we really wouldn't know anything much for sure about her.
Mary Morstan was an assasin/governess she married Watson and Holmes quite liked her and then she - left.
Probably we are doomed to ambiguous Mary for ever.

Last edited by lil (June 23, 2015 2:41 pm)

SusiGo · June 23, 2015 3:18 pm

Good points, lil. And it of course would help to concentrate again (true to Canon) on the relationship between Sherlock and John.

However, I think that they will give us an explanation and reason for when Mary leaves the stage some time in the future because John will have to react in some way and he is central to the show. And morever, Mary is a curious blend of Canon Mrs Watson/governess/nurse and femme fatale ACD style. And there is also the baby.

lil · June 23, 2015 3:51 pm

Agree@Susie the effect Mary has had on SH and JW will be central and is quite an interesting topic by itself already.

Whisky · June 23, 2015 6:14 pm

SusiGo wrote:
And there is also the baby.

I had happily forgotten. Don't remind me.

I think maybe they'll come up with such an interersting storyline / villain / new development that we forget all about Mary. That she will automatically fall in the background and that it will be smooth should she finally leave.

Vhanja · June 23, 2015 6:44 pm

I can not believe why they wrote in the pregnancy. How on earth are they going to get John out of that? I mean - we can't have John running around with Sherlock if he's a father? But they can't kill a baby, that just isn't done in tv. It's like they've written themselves into a corner, although they probably (hopefully) have a plan.

lil · June 23, 2015 7:37 pm

Think they needed the baby to sell Johns return to Mary.

Also because , its summer break and I'm either drunk or hungover, , it was the metaphorical answer to the fall in the way that good and evil necessitate all creation.

Mattlocked · June 24, 2015 10:34 am

Vhanja wrote:
I can not believe why they wrote in the pregnancy. How on earth are they going to get John out of that? I mean - we can't have John running around with Sherlock if he's a father? But they can't kill a baby, that just isn't done in tv. It's like they've written themselves into a corner, although they probably (hopefully) have a plan.

My thoughts always have been: Mary can just vanish, taking the child with her.
Hard for John, though.... But Sherlock could comfort him....

OR John isn't the father. Also possible.

SusiGo · June 24, 2015 11:18 am

Yes, you are right. We have discussed this elsewhere but I think that letting the baby die would cast an enormous shadow over the whole show and would further complicate the Mary solution. Maybe it has not been for nothing that David featured quite prominently in TSoT.
And Mary having/being forced to leave and taking the baby with her would be preferable to having John grieve over the loss of Mary and/or the baby and return to Baker Street just in order to lick his wounds. But then with Moftisson you never know ...

Last edited by SusiGo (June 24, 2015 11:24 am)

tonnaree · June 24, 2015 1:37 pm

John not being the father is my own personal favorite solution. And since I really what John to be DONE with Mary, this would certainly add fuel to his anger.

Vhanja · June 24, 2015 1:53 pm

I would also love for John not being the father, anger is better than grief. However, I don't think it would fit with Mary as we've seen her. She will do "anything" to keep John, even to the point of shooting Sherlock. If she values her relationship and life with John so much, it makes no sense for her to be cheating on him. Why gamble with something that you are willing to kill to keep?

SusiGo · June 24, 2015 2:04 pm

I agree, it does not really fit with the way Mary is presented. And it may be that David's appearance is truly just meant to be a comic element to show Sherlock's very own way of ensuring a harmonic wedding. But still - inviting your ex who seems still very much interested in you and who is exactly the same type as your hubby-to-be seems a strange thing do to. And he even has photos of her and John which he posts on FB. And I really wonder why Mary needed a shoulder to cry on three times during her time with John.

NatureNoHumansNo · June 24, 2015 2:39 pm

Sherlock : " Moriarty is back, the game is on"
John " I don't care, Mary just died from a fierce devastating flu and used her last breath to confess the baby is not mine"
Sherlock : " Ok, then, let's go to bed, I'm gonna comfort you and we'll chase Moriarty tomorow"

You're right, this is gooooooood TV!

SusiGo · June 24, 2015 2:46 pm

Brilliant. I am really looking forward to that.

NatureNoHumansNo · June 24, 2015 2:57 pm

Not sure we're on the same level but glad if it brightens your day!

SusiGo · June 24, 2015 3:02 pm

I know it will not be that easy but I like the idea.

tonnaree · June 24, 2015 5:21 pm

NatureNoHumansNo wrote:
Sherlock : " Moriarty is back, the game is on"
John " I don't care, Mary just died from a fierce devastating flu and used her last breath to confess the baby is not mine"
Sherlock : " Ok, then, let's go to bed, I'm gonna comfort you and we'll chase Moriarty tomorow"

You're right, this is gooooooood TV!

Works for me. Although I'd rather have a dramatic moment with Mary as the villian and John has to shoot her because she's threating to shoot Sherlock again.

tonnaree · June 24, 2015 5:21 pm

Not that I'm really expecting to get it.

SusiGo · June 24, 2015 6:02 pm

That is a bit violent for my taste but I would definitely go for the second part of your sentence.

NatureNoHumansNo · June 24, 2015 6:05 pm

Deleted it, it could have been shocking to some people.