mrshouse wrote:

Quiet so, and that is what i love martin's acting for!

Couldn't agree more! His ability to subtly yet still palpably convey every single emotion is something very rare!
 

mrshouse wrote:

Quiet so, and that is what i love martin's acting for!

I was suprised about his acting skills. To be honest I haven't seen much of him before. Just a few episodes of "The Office", "Love actually" and "Hobbit". Even as the Hobbit I think he hadn't to show this much emotions.
But as he did in "Sherlock" and especially in S3... sooo impressive... a strong competitor to Benedict who is the champion of that for me of all actors I have in my mind at the moment.

miriel68 wrote:

I am wondering whether some - no, not doubts, this is too strong a word - but hesitations about John's reactions and feelings in s3, especially HLV stem from the script or from MF perfomance. Evidentely there must be something slightly disturbing and I wouldn't put it on simple not being able to observe and understand a subtle performance: not on this board, at least, where the people are not casual viewers and tend to watch and re-watch episodes, analysing them in depth. One thing I noticed, for example, in the scene at the beginning of the episode, when they are leaving drug den and Sherlock is shouting, is that MF is actually smiling! (Well, it is true that Benedict is hilarious as an enraged junkie!). This is the first time in the whole series I noticed MF acting out of character.

I'm not sure if I understand what you mean by MF being out of character in this particular scene. MF smiles a lot.
I think that script and perfomance meet somewhere in the middle. Could also imagine that MF is happy about showing more facades of john's appearance. Read somewhere in an interview, that he enjoys the scenes on his own pretty much.

John also smiled in that scene when CAM showed them his "vaults". IMO these smiles are more a sign of disbelief. They aren't happy, are they? And this... is connected to the role and situation.
Possible explanation?

Last edited by gently69 (January 23, 2014 8:25 am)

I have to watch the drug den scene again. Can't remember Martin smiling.

The last time I watched it was yesterday. But at the same time I wrote some PMs... because I thought I know HLV ... good enough to have noticed everything already. Ha ha, WRONG!

miriel68 wrote:

I am wondering whether some - no, not doubts, this is too strong a word - but hesitations about John's reactions and feelings in s3, especially HLV stem from the script or from MF perfomance. Evidentely there must be something slightly disturbing and I wouldn't put it on simple not being able to observe and understand a subtle performance: not on this board, at least, where the people are not casual viewers and tend to watch and re-watch episodes, analysing them in depth. One thing I noticed, for example, in the scene at the beginning of the episode, when they are leaving drug den and Sherlock is shouting, is that MF is actually smiling! (Well, it is true that Benedict is hilarious as an enraged junkie!). This is the first time in the whole series I noticed MF acting out of character.

Taking into consideration that they usually film several takes of every scene and MF never plays his part exactly the same in each take (because that would be too boring), I'm rather confident that what we see from John in this last scene at the airport is what the writers wanted him to be like. By the way, Sherlock seemed rather cold in that graveyard at the end of TRF, after seeing a broken John at his grave. Did anyone question Ben's acting there? I don't think so . . .
 

Last edited by LightPurple (January 23, 2014 4:01 pm)

He looked very serious. No sign of tears. (We talking about the end of TRF?) Near to tears he showed convincing in HLV.

silverblaze wrote:

Ben looked really close to tears there. Very realistic acting IMHO.

gently69 wrote:

He looked very serious. No sign of tears. (We talking about the end of TRF?) Near to tears he showed convincing in HLV.

mrshouse wrote:

I thought he looked really sad at the graveyard, not close to tears though

Thank you, you just proved the point I was trying to make: Some people think Sherlock looked close to tears there, some think he looked really sad but definitly not close to tears, some think he looked serious and some think he looked cold (I don't, I was just kind of playing devil's advocate there for a bit) or at least not moved enough after seeing John's grief. His expression can be interpreted differently, but no one ever thought of questioning BC's acting there (and to say it again, neither do I). 

So John's expressions and behaviour at the airport in HLV can be interpreted defferently by people as well, but why do they start to question MF's acting there? There's absolutely no reason to belive that he didn't perfectly deliver what the writers wanted in that scene, and I think the people who think that John acted coldly base this at least as much on his refusal to call his daughter "Sherlock" (something MF can definitly not be blamed for) as on anything else in that scene. 
 

Last edited by LightPurple (January 23, 2014 11:34 pm)

KeepersPrice wrote:

LightPurple wrote:

There's absolutely no reason to belive that he didn't perfectly deliver what the writers wanted in that scene, and I think the people who think that John acted coldly base this at least as much on his refusal to call his daughter "Sherlock" (something MF can definitly not be blamed for) as on anything else in that scene. 
 

I never thought he acted "coldly". It's hard to put my finger on it, but to me it felt more like he hadn't totally grasped the implications of this farewell with Sherlock.  It was almost like he didn't hear Sherlock when he said they would likely never meet again. Part of me thinks that while he is still very fond of Sherlock, his wife and baby are now his primary focus.   Another part thinks he might be inured to statements like this because Sherlock and his brother always seem to pull off miracles.  And the plane turning around after only 4 minutes proves him right.

I liked the 'guy' humor in the scene - wouldn't trade that - but I guess I wanted just a bit more on the other end of the scale too. Nothing big and pathetic - just the tiniest bit more to show me that John fully understood the gravity of the situation. Oh well, not really complaining. It's all in the eyes of the beholder I guess. Then there's the fact that I'm probably projecting myself into the scene and thinking how I'd react if my best friend had just sacrificed his entire future for me and my family; and then, while saying good-bye at the airport, just happened to mention that I'd never see him again. It wouldn't be a handshake, I can tell you that.

You have expressed this beautifully; I have tried to do the same but certainly never managed to refine it as well as you have done.

I would add only one thing; for me there was a hint that John just didn't want to know, which probably freaked some people out, including me. I appreciate there's all that psychological stuff about being in denial, which could well apply, but still I feel there is a debt of honour between him and Sherlock which John didn't quite discharge. And the concept of a debt of honour, for those not hugely enthralled by the topic, may seem out of date by comparison with ACD, who took it very seriously, but it is still a meaningful concept.

So, thanks for your post...