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December 17, 2013 10:51 am  #221


Re: World Premiere of The Empty Hearse on 15 Dec.

Be wrote:

The decision to make the actors read fanfiction was wrong. Not only because they were possibly too polite to say no but also because of the poor girl whose story was read. Of course it is published and everybody can do with it what they want but I imagine what the woman who might just want to express her love and feelings and improve her writing must feel right now after being publicly humiliated and made fun of.

Have a look at this post from a woman who can express her concern much better:
http://fireplum.tumblr.com/post/70222347586/an-open-letter-to-caitlin-moran

We all posted a lot of silly ideas here and on tumblr how Sherlock survived and why everything happend how it happend. At the end of the day most of our theories will probably be wrong or in parts wrong. Are we all going to be embarrassed about it? Must we fear that clever people will make fun of us because we went on a journey in our own mind palace and got lost?

Oh, I have just re-posted that open letter on tumblr. She puts it in words brilliantly.


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I still believe that love conquers all!

     

"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

December 17, 2013 11:19 am  #222


Re: World Premiere of The Empty Hearse on 15 Dec.

Everyone should be allowed their fantasies.  And most of us realize that they are just that, fantasties, a bit of fun.  I have had some lovely day dreams about Benedict/Sherlock. (shocking, I know!)
 Fan Fiction is just a way to share those dreams with other like minded idividuals if you choose to.
It's not like I would ever walk up to him if I got the chance and say "OMG you're so hot!  I imagine wild stuff about you all the time"!   I wouldn't have even done that when I was 15!

I think we need to put this behind us now.  We can't undo it.  We can only continue to admire and respect our boys and try to set an example.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Proud President and Founder of the OSAJ.  
Honorary German  
"Anyone who takes himself too seriously always runs the risk of looking ridiculous; anyone who can consistently laugh at himself does not".
 -Vaclav Havel 
"Life is full of wonder, Love is never wrong."   Melissa Ethridge

I ship it harder than Mrs. Hudson.
    
 
 

December 17, 2013 12:12 pm  #223


Re: World Premiere of The Empty Hearse on 15 Dec.

Be wrote:

Of course it is published and everybody can do with it...

Not to bash anyone or anything, but this is in fact wrong. Just because it's on the Internet doesn't mean that people can take something and do what they want with it. These items are still protected by copyright. And yes, that includes fan art and fan fiction. What we write, draw, ect. is protected by the same laws as original work, and whether they themselves are infringements of someone else's copyright doesn't matter. (I am sooo not going into copyright on the Holmes stories. That one is too long haired, even for me.)
What this woman did - having a great part of the work performed publicly - it quite likely against copyright law in the UK and the author of the story would have a good case if she decides to take it to court.
 


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Is it nice not being me? It must be so relaxing.

An apostrophe makes the difference between a business that knows its shit, and a business that knows it's shit.
 

December 17, 2013 12:55 pm  #224


Re: World Premiere of The Empty Hearse on 15 Dec.

Ormond Sacker wrote:

Be wrote:

Of course it is published and everybody can do with it...

Not to bash anyone or anything, but this is in fact wrong. Just because it's on the Internet doesn't mean that people can take something and do what they want with it. These items are still protected by copyright. And yes, that includes fan art and fan fiction. What we write, draw, ect. is protected by the same laws as original work, and whether they themselves are infringements of someone else's copyright doesn't matter. (I am sooo not going into copyright on the Holmes stories. That one is too long haired, even for me.)
What this woman did - having a great part of the work performed publicly - it quite likely against copyright law in the UK and the author of the story would have a good case if she decides to take it to court.
 

I am not familiar with U.K. law concerning copyright. The first question to be asked is what kind of law applies. U.K. because is was read in the U.K.? Where was it pubished? AO3? What kind of law applies there? What nationality has the author? It is at first a question of IPR (international private law).
Then the next question is: Unter which legal circumstances has the autor published it?
I always got the impression (without having done research about it too heavily) that ao3 fanfiction are done totally without any implementation of copyright. It's free to download, print out, read and even change.

But I don't think the copyright question is important because the border that was crossed was not a legal one (if at all) but a moral one.

Here is the author's comment:
http://mildredandbobbin.tumblr.com/post/70156524860/if-you-could-one-thing-to-say-to-caitlin-or-benedict
 

Last edited by Be (December 17, 2013 1:16 pm)

 

December 17, 2013 3:14 pm  #225


Re: World Premiere of The Empty Hearse on 15 Dec.

Be wrote:

Ormond Sacker wrote:

Be wrote:

Of course it is published and everybody can do with it...

Not to bash anyone or anything, but this is in fact wrong. Just because it's on the Internet doesn't mean that people can take something and do what they want with it. These items are still protected by copyright. And yes, that includes fan art and fan fiction. What we write, draw, ect. is protected by the same laws as original work, and whether they themselves are infringements of someone else's copyright doesn't matter. (I am sooo not going into copyright on the Holmes stories. That one is too long haired, even for me.)
What this woman did - having a great part of the work performed publicly - it quite likely against copyright law in the UK and the author of the story would have a good case if she decides to take it to court.
 

I am not familiar with U.K. law concerning copyright. The first question to be asked is what kind of law applies. U.K. because is was read in the U.K.? Where was it pubished? AO3? What kind of law applies there? What nationality has the author? It is at first a question of IPR (international private law).
Then the next question is: Unter which legal circumstances has the autor published it?
I always got the impression (without having done research about it too heavily) that ao3 fanfiction are done totally without any implementation of copyright. It's free to download, print out, read and even change.

But I don't think the copyright question is important because the border that was crossed was not a legal one (if at all) but a moral one.

Here is the author's comment:
http://mildredandbobbin.tumblr.com/post/70156524860/if-you-could-one-thing-to-say-to-caitlin-or-benedict
 

 
On the issue of copyright a blog on it from someone who know this stuff much better than me in direct relation to this issue. http://ormondhsacker.tumblr.com/search/fair%20use

I understand that the moral/ethical border is the one that hurts, I merely meant this as an address on the fact that just because it's on-line and just because it's fanart, -fiction, whatever, doesn't mean people can do with it what they want. Okay, I'll shut up on this now. That woman is taking entirely too much of our time.

 


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is it nice not being me? It must be so relaxing.

An apostrophe makes the difference between a business that knows its shit, and a business that knows it's shit.
 

December 17, 2013 3:59 pm  #226


Re: World Premiere of The Empty Hearse on 15 Dec.

I just unfollowed CM on Twitter. Not only because of her behaviour during the Q&A but also because she calls herself a feminist and then tweets things like this:

Caitlin Moran ‏@caitlinmoran14 Dec

Apparently there are people ALREADY QUEUING for Sherlock at the BFI tomorrow #dedication #frostbite

 Rachel Roberts ‏@scouserachel14 Dec

@caitlinmoran #virgins

Caitlin Moran ‏@caitlinmoran14 Dec


@scouserachel SO HARSH SO TRUE

Let me see - she starts with a neutral observation about people queueing for the film one day early (which may be mad but so what). Then someone else calls those women/girls virgins and CM agrees with her. This is a woman who calls herself a feminist and writes about feminism in the 21st century. So are all women/girls wanting to watch Sherlock/the team so badly frustrated virgins? Women or girls who do not get "real" men and therefore have to pine for movie stars? Is this her meaning?
As for her tweets - if feminism means squeezing in as many vulgar words as possible then I suppose I am not a feminist. 
A shame, actually, because she wrote some nice articles about Benedict but this is frankly disappointing. 
Rant over. Now let's get back to what really counts. 

Last edited by SusiGo (December 17, 2013 3:59 pm)


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
     Thread Starter
 

December 17, 2013 4:13 pm  #227


Re: World Premiere of The Empty Hearse on 15 Dec.

Yeah, we have to remember the important thing here; Sherlock's coming back ^^


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dean - "I'm not happy about it. But I got to move on. So I'm gonna keep doing what we do...while I still can. And I'd like you to be there with me."

Sam - "I'm your brother, Dean, if you ever need to talk about anything with anybody, you got someone right here next to you."


 

December 17, 2013 4:17 pm  #228


Re: World Premiere of The Empty Hearse on 15 Dec.

Trying to figure out how to tell my husband I'm a virgin.  He's going to be very distrubed.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Proud President and Founder of the OSAJ.  
Honorary German  
"Anyone who takes himself too seriously always runs the risk of looking ridiculous; anyone who can consistently laugh at himself does not".
 -Vaclav Havel 
"Life is full of wonder, Love is never wrong."   Melissa Ethridge

I ship it harder than Mrs. Hudson.
    
 
 

December 17, 2013 4:22 pm  #229


Re: World Premiere of The Empty Hearse on 15 Dec.

Yes, that might be a problem not that you mention it. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
     Thread Starter
 

December 17, 2013 4:38 pm  #230


Re: World Premiere of The Empty Hearse on 15 Dec.

As others have indicated, hoping we can all move on from this.
I'm still following Caitlin on Twitter, but she always used to irritate me on occasions.

Last edited by besleybean (December 17, 2013 4:39 pm)


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

December 17, 2013 4:54 pm  #231


Re: World Premiere of The Empty Hearse on 15 Dec.

Maybe something good will emerge out of this incident when people start to think twice before they humiliate others in public.
BTW, do you see that this is exactly what Sherlock always does? Expose the secrets of other humans and make fun of it. And we love it.

There is a fine line between reality and fiction and between mocking, humor, making fun of something and humiliation.

 

December 17, 2013 5:00 pm  #232


Re: World Premiere of The Empty Hearse on 15 Dec.

I'm still not convinced Caitlin thought this through.
I think she's a tad impulsive.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

December 17, 2013 5:18 pm  #233


Re: World Premiere of The Empty Hearse on 15 Dec.

besleybean wrote:

I'm still not convinced Caitlin thought this through.
I think she's a tad impulsive.

I don't know either. Going by the twitter feeds Susi mentioned she lost a bit of grib on reality and thought herself superior to others (we know that, too, don't we?)
A fictional Sherlock is fun but being Sherlock or having to live with a Sherlockian person isn't.
Let's have some mercy with her. She made a mistake and I presume that she knows it by now.

 

December 17, 2013 5:44 pm  #234


Re: World Premiere of The Empty Hearse on 15 Dec.

Well, she obviously didn't (think it through), because she would understand that it was a kind of very spectacular suicide for her, as far as her relation to Sherlock production team is concerned.However, I am a bit surprised that all the outrage seems to be about the fandom and fanfiction writers. What about the humiliation of Benedict and Martin, forced to read pornographic text (about the characters they play and are identified with) aloud in public? If I understood the reports, CM assured them before reading that it was "innocent". 

 

December 17, 2013 5:51 pm  #235


Re: World Premiere of The Empty Hearse on 15 Dec.

miriel68 wrote:

Well, she obviously didn't (think it through), because she would understand that it was a kind of very spectacular suicide for her, as far as her relation to Sherlock production team is concerned.However, I am a bit surprised that all the outrage seems to be about the fandom and fanfiction writers. What about the humiliation of Benedict and Martin, forced to read pornographic text (about the characters they play and are identified with) aloud in public? If I understood the reports, CM assured them before reading that it was "innocent". 

that was actually my main concenr. It's like slapping them in the face. Just very rude.


The Game is On!
 

December 17, 2013 7:01 pm  #236


Re: World Premiere of The Empty Hearse on 15 Dec.

Marva wrote:

miriel68 wrote:

Well, she obviously didn't (think it through), because she would understand that it was a kind of very spectacular suicide for her, as far as her relation to Sherlock production team is concerned.However, I am a bit surprised that all the outrage seems to be about the fandom and fanfiction writers. What about the humiliation of Benedict and Martin, forced to read pornographic text (about the characters they play and are identified with) aloud in public? If I understood the reports, CM assured them before reading that it was "innocent". 

that was actually my main concenr. It's like slapping them in the face. Just very rude.

I just hope they know that the whole fandom is horrified and does not agree with what happend.
I hope Mark, Sue, Lou and Amanda who are on Twitter received a lot of messages considering this and can pass the messages to Ben and Martin.


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"There is a place for people like you, the desperate, the terrified. The ones with nowhere else to run."
"What place?"
"221B Baker Street."
 

December 17, 2013 8:51 pm  #237


Re: World Premiere of The Empty Hearse on 15 Dec.

Two, imo, very good interviews.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MO7mjI0aRXc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piZdrK-858Q

They don't tell me what I don't want to know right now... and it makes me a little bit squirrelly.


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Ten:" I'm burning up a sun just to say goodbye."

Sherlock: "I heard you.”

"Temptation coursing through our veins " 
(Tony Hadley)

 
 

December 17, 2013 9:21 pm  #238


Re: World Premiere of The Empty Hearse on 15 Dec.

miriel68 wrote:

Well, she obviously didn't (think it through), because she would understand that it was a kind of very spectacular suicide for her, as far as her relation to Sherlock production team is concerned.However, I am a bit surprised that all the outrage seems to be about the fandom and fanfiction writers. What about the humiliation of Benedict and Martin, forced to read pornographic text (about the characters they play and are identified with) aloud in public? If I understood the reports, CM assured them before reading that it was "innocent". 

 
It's not the text that worries me - the excerpt they read wasn't that pornographic - but the fact that the actors were used as a tool to humiliate other people. They had to play along, they had no chance to think through what they were doing. The whole situation was just awful. Ah, let's forget about it and go back to the nicer things.


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He’s got a dog. We go to the pub on weekends. I’ve met his mum and dad …

… and his friends and all his family and I’ve no idea why I’m telling you this.
 

December 17, 2013 9:24 pm  #239


Re: World Premiere of The Empty Hearse on 15 Dec.

Bit hard at the moment...oh yes, S3 nearly here!


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

December 18, 2013 1:01 am  #240


Re: World Premiere of The Empty Hearse on 15 Dec.



^^


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dean - "I'm not happy about it. But I got to move on. So I'm gonna keep doing what we do...while I still can. And I'd like you to be there with me."

Sam - "I'm your brother, Dean, if you ever need to talk about anything with anybody, you got someone right here next to you."


 

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