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It's Canon » Johnlock: The Official Debate » May 28, 2017 8:52 am

ewige
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But what's with his shocked state after the Battersea? Why would he follow John if he knew about Irene's being alive all along?

ETA:
"The pain of loss, the joy of redemption" - I think Sherlock wouldn't have been so easy to play if he didn't believe Irene was dead at one point.

It's Canon » Johnlock: The Official Debate » May 28, 2017 8:30 am

ewige
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besleybean wrote:

Oh I am sorry, we're back to ancient history and we mean when she was allegedly on the slab?
Well he obviously didn't look at the body that closely or wasn't quite so intimate with her then.
Because he very definitely thought she was dead  then, hence the misty-eyed look on his way back from Battersea to 221 B.

Yes, this is what I'm referring to.
He wrote the piece after the slab scene, thinking Irene was dead. I doubt that the resulting mourning tune had sexual connotations for him, this is why the tune is not about sex but about being human (which equals with having sex in Eurus' eyes, but I don't really agree with her).

It's Canon » Johnlock: The Official Debate » May 28, 2017 7:24 am

ewige
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I too have been thinking that the wedding waltz would have been macaber so soon after Mary's demise.

Besides, we should remember that Sherlock composed Irene's theme well before he could have slept with her. So Eurus picks on his state of mind at that moment in the past which is full of sad longing - Sherlock thought Irene dead. This is why this theme represents first of all Sherlock's human side for me. After composing it he could have slept with either Irene or John (if at all). Summarizing over the whole show, there's been shown more sad longing for John than for Irene hands down.

It's Canon » Johnlock: The Official Debate » May 27, 2017 9:13 pm

ewige
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I still say that Irene's theme represents Sherlock's (mostly hidden) human side, his hypothetical ability to have sex Not necessarily with Irene.

It's Canon » Johnlock: The Official Debate » May 27, 2017 6:35 pm

ewige
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Schmiezi wrote:

Liberty wrote:

I think they always did (write what they wanted).   I suspected at one point that they were being careful not to alienate people who shipped them, and so wanted to leave some ambiguity there.   But later on, I thought that probably wasn't the case.

I wonder if they really cared about people who shipped Johnlock when doing S1. The ambiguity was there right from the start.

I think they did everything to put this ambiguity there. To the point that it was barely ambiguous. But it's just my opinion, I know others don't see it this way.

Series Four News » Series 4 in German - finally! » May 27, 2017 1:34 pm

ewige
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We'll be on vacation when it aires
I wanted to show it to my hubby too since he's just a casual viewer and getting DVDs in German will never pay off for vieweing them just once...

 

It's Canon » Johnlock: The Official Debate » May 25, 2017 8:46 pm

ewige
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If I were Irene (and I almost am! Russian names, ha!), I'd never have really slept with Sherlock because that would diminish the fun. It's the chase and the evasion that's interesting in their case, don't you think?

In case with Sherlock and John (to come back on topic), a physical relationship would merely uncover a different aspect of their loving relationship.

It's Canon » Johnlock: The Official Debate » May 25, 2017 8:26 pm

ewige
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I remember a story where Sherlock saved Irene in Karachi only to realize that she lured him into a trap and some terrorists were threatening to kill him if Mycroft didn't accept their demands. And Sherlock laughed in her face because really, who'd she play with if they killed him?

It's Canon » Johnlock: The Official Debate » May 25, 2017 8:22 pm

ewige
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Anyway, since we are talking about unconsummated (unshown, unspoken) romance being the most intriguing one... I think that a night of passion woulf be too pedestrian for Sherlock and Irene both and they'd lose interest in each other afterwards. Her game was about seducing him, wasn't it?

It's Canon » Johnlock: The Official Debate » May 25, 2017 8:20 pm

ewige
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Yeah, he's such a gentleman :D

I thought you wouldn't censor anything about sex, would you? It's not like the F word, after all.

It's Canon » Johnlock: The Official Debate » May 25, 2017 8:10 pm

ewige
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besleybean wrote:

@ ewige.See I find that odd, particularly when Benedict seems fairly clear that Sherlock and Irene s----d in Karachi!

Now I'm dying to know what you censored out!

Liberty wrote:

Yes, if anything it was ASIB (or perhaps my thoughts about it after viewing) that swung me the other way!  Partly because of the choice to do it like that.   The canon story was much more ambiguous - Holmes is clearly fascinating by Irene and admires her, but he's outwitted by her, rather than losing the game through falling for her, I think.   There was a clear choice to go in that direction. It wasn't something that was necessary to follow canon. 

But Sherlock almost lost the game not because of falling for Irene but because she was smart enough to "make him dance".
This ep made Sherlock look suddenly more human than I dared hope so it swung me from "cheap gay jokes" to "wait a mo, what exactly is happening here?"
 

It's Canon » Johnlock: The Official Debate » May 25, 2017 7:03 pm

ewige
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Vhanja wrote:

I never thought of Johnlock when I watched the series for the first time. It never crossed my mind at all. It wasn't until I had finished S3 and started looking up the fandom online that I discovered that Johnlock was a thing. And coming from HP shipping fandom, I got onboard quite quickly. 

Oddly, I became a johnlocker after watching ASIB. It's still my favorite ep too.

It's Canon » Johnlock: The Official Debate » May 25, 2017 7:02 pm

ewige
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Oh yes, Janeway and Chakotay! I went online after watching "Resolutions" on TV and saw words like "ship" and "UST" for the very first time! Janeway and Chakotay intoduced me to this whole shippers business. I awe them so much, lol

Liberty wrote:

... I wonder if part of the attraction of Johnlock is because it's not shown?   Maybe even especially for those of us who don't normally like romances - we like it in our imaginations rather than being shown explicitly (and by "explicitly" I mean "clearly, no room for doubt" rather than explicit sex scenes!), perhaps in a way that doesn't resonate with us? 

I don't seek out romances either, so I'm curious about this. 
 

I feel the same. I prefer the unspoken (while it's not "not shown" in my opinion; one could say it's not "unspoken" either, but I mean confessions in romantic context) love between John and Sherlock so I sort of feared the resolution in the last ep. Now I actually had my cake and ate it too, clever Moftiss!
 

It's Canon » Johnlock: The Official Debate » May 25, 2017 1:44 pm

ewige
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I too come from the HP fandom (cheers Vhanja) and ship a het pairing there.

But long before HP I was very much into Star Trek and Stargate.

I don't go looking for slash ships. With Star Trek, I kept asking friends who shipped Kirk/Spock about their reasoning because I saw less than nothing there. So Johnlock hit me like a brick some years later and I couldn't unsee it anymore. Like Schmiezi says, they are soulmates for me regardless of their gender.

Stargate SG1 is a good example of the show where the creators used tons of romantic tropes for a het ship that never could have sailed due to the US Airforce regs. Sam and Jack couldn't become a couple until one of them retired from the service. Meanwhile they were married and whatnot in mirror universes and the looks of longing were innumerable. Even if Moftiss tell the truth when they say they don't want Sherlock and John to end up as a romantic couple, they are definitely NOT innocent of using romantic tropes to tickle viewers.

Edit to add:
Amatonormativity is not a bad thing in my eyes. While I don't need a romantic ending to find a story satisfying, love is something that's been moving this world around for countless centuries. Famous storytellers and bards kept warning us about the dangers of romance, wars have been fought and lost over tender feelings. In my eyes, love, jealousy and rejection add spice to every drama. It's a fool-proof recipe for a moving story *shrugs*

It's Canon » Johnlock: The Official Debate » May 23, 2017 1:10 pm

ewige
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Vhanja wrote:

It's in the wind again due to season 3 being out now, 25 years after season 2 ended (beat that, Moftiss!)

*strangled yelp*
Don't encourage them!

General Sherlock Discussion » Finally: The Sherlock/John picture thread » May 22, 2017 7:35 pm

ewige
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Okay, I got it! Phew! Not that I wouldn't appreciate such a promo shot, but it would throw my whole UST concept of the show outta the window! :D

General Sherlock Discussion » Finally: The Sherlock/John picture thread » May 22, 2017 7:30 pm

ewige
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I don't know what to think. Nakahara, what's the answer to this puzzle? Is it really official? And if not, does anybody have the source pictures?

General Sherlock Discussion » Finally: The Sherlock/John picture thread » May 22, 2017 7:26 pm

ewige
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I mean, it looks legit - the same direction and depth of the shadow, the same contrast, the same sharpness. But it's obviously John and Sherlock (as opposed to the actors) and I just can't imagine the camera guy saying anything like "Just hug him from behind, yeah, just like that."

On the other hand, this shot is official too and even more intimate imo:


 

General Sherlock Discussion » Finally: The Sherlock/John picture thread » May 22, 2017 7:18 pm

ewige
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nakahara wrote:

Naughty official photo:

My first reaction was - how come it's naughty?
And then - how come it's official? You're pulling my leg, right?

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