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Sherlock Links » Episode transcripts (and commentary, and DVD extra transcripts) » January 4, 2017 4:05 pm

Whisky
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Thank you so much!! Going to read it right now - as said above, if English isn't your native language, it's too easy to miss things. Such a big help!
 

The Six Thatchers » The cases in TST » January 4, 2017 4:00 pm

Whisky
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But is he still on drugs? Would he be on drugs again, without the cases?

Actually, I would be interested in that... is he better now, on a whole? With John and Mary as friends, not on his way to certain death, back home...
Isn't there a chance that he could be fine without drugs, even without so many cases? He was before. I mean, he wasn't exactly behaving healthy when bored, but I think we have seen him clean before.
I think it's not only distraction. He also likes it.

 

The Six Thatchers » First impressons and discussions » January 4, 2017 3:54 pm

Whisky
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Just for the record: The episode starts growing on me. Not to a scale like other favourites, but I'm getting to terms with it. Interesting that others made the same experience - and some didn't.

I think I needed time to process things, and I missed lots of details the first time... It also helped to rewatch the episodes before.

And actually, not very surprising though - the forum helped, too. Without these discussions here, I would miss so many things, and stay puzzled about others forever!

 

The Six Thatchers » The cases in TST » January 4, 2017 3:50 pm

Whisky
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Not exactly about a single case, but:

I wondered about Mary and John trying to get Sherlock's attention while he is solving cases. Finally there's "Sherlock, you can’t go on spinning plates like this."

I wondered about this, because, isn't that what Sherlock has always done? What is different this time? And why can't he go on like that? I am not quite sure what they mean by it. Because of Moriarty? Or because he is going to be Godfather? I cannot think of a reason why. He looks pretty much like himself in the scenes. Or do they mean the manic behaviour he also showed in the opening scene in the office ("natural high")?

He solves the cases, he is arrogant about it, he is having fun - he is pretty much himself, isn't he, while solving them. What do John and Mary not like about it?

 

The Six Thatchers » First impressons and discussions » January 2, 2017 5:31 pm

Whisky
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besleybean wrote:

Refers to HLV: when Sherlock wanted the baby named after him.

 
Yes, but the "Sherlock is actually a girl's name", that was between John and Sherlock.  Isn't iit a reference to that line? I don't remember exactly, just thought John must have told Mary that line, because she wasn't there to hear it. It sounded like a joke about exactly that line.
Anyway, doesn't matter that much.

edit: thank you, ewige, exactly that! You put it better than me!
Exactly that feeling of making fun of Sherlock's sentiment was what bothered me!
So John obviously didn't see it as a very private moment then, the exchange on the tarmac? We speculated so much about it and it's meaning (or hidden meaning, or what could have been said instead) so it sprang into my face somehow.

The Six Thatchers » First impressons and discussions » January 2, 2017 5:26 pm

Whisky
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Just realised, what is going on when Sherlock dismisses John and takes Mary's help instead.... it felt like  a joke first, but then... I would be very pissed off in John's place! Sherlock doesn't seem to joke. Or is he?

Rewatching, I love Mycroft and Sherlock even more together. Their interaction is great! 

Also, the scenes with Lestrade, Sherlock and John... I really enjoy them. Like a little save haven in the big troubled Mary ocean  Not meant negative, but it's nice to have this quiet detective work before things get dark.

The Six Thatchers » First impressons and discussions » January 2, 2017 5:02 pm

Whisky
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Why did John tell Mary about "it's not a girls name"? *
Looks like a joke shared between them.

* edit: I meant the "Sherlock is actually a girls name" which Sherlock says on the tarmac. I was unconsciously using the other words.

The Six Thatchers » First impressons and discussions » January 2, 2017 4:41 pm

Whisky
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Swanpride wrote:

I think I have pinned down the issues with the episode:
1. It didn't actually continue the story which was set up and for which we waited for three years. It just throw in distractions. I mean, that is the big revelation, that Moriarty set up something in case he died, and now Sherlock has to wait? Really?
2. It set up a new story on top of the one which is already dangling in the air, and honestly, I have a hard time to get invested in this because at this point it feels more like the writers are stringing the audience around than an actual mystery for us to solve.
3. You could have spread out what happened in the episode over two. It showed a glimpse of a story and then it run just forward. "Here are moments with Sherlock and Rosalind"....ops, let's shuffle the baby aside. "Here is Lestrade meeting a new character and talking about how he meet Sherlock"...but nah, that is way to interesting to actually linger on it, let's move forward. "Here is a new case"....oh, you thought that we would spend some time on it? Nah, here is the solution. Even the whole thing with Mary being suspected to be a traitor played pretty much on speed dial. I mean, wouldn't it be way more interesting if we actually got to see John talking to Sherlock about Mary?

 
Thank you for structuring this. I agree, especially on point 2 and 3.
(Because Moriarty, to me, feels by now like an old villain that has been once, don't feel much need to wait for any more revelation from him or his helpers. And Magnusson was such a good distraction in between that I stopped missing Moriarty. And now there is another great villain on the horizon...)

I would have loved it if some of the small scenes could have been longer. I kind of understand there wasn't time... but it felt there was so much potential!

Magnusson... actually, I find it still disgusting what he did to people, but listening to Mycroft and his freelance party, I think it isn't such a wrong sentiment to want to tell th

The Six Thatchers » First impressons and discussions » January 2, 2017 9:12 am

Whisky
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SolarSystem wrote:

Apart from that, I really missed what I would call the "Sherlock style". Someone already mentioned it, I never got the feeling that I was watching the show which blew me anyway during its first six episodes, especially visually. I always loved the show because it was different, because it was a tv show with the feeling of a movie, because it was fascinating on a visual as well as on a story-telling level. And now we're getting scenes with Mary in combat situations which make me think 'God, I have seen this a thousand times before, can it get anymore ordinary...?'. So many things felt uninspired, from the scene with Mary more or less giving birth in a car and behaving like a lunatic (how many times have I seen this before on tv or in a movie?) to Mary's death scene. Yes, the setting with the aquarium was fascinating, but in that case the setting wasn't enough.

And since I'm talking about 'not enough': I know that Mark said that ultimately it's a show about Sherlock and John. And after TST I'm really, really hoping that he's not only talking about it, but that they're also doing it. Again. And very, very soon. Because boy, at the moment I feel like Tom Hanks in "Sleepless in Seattle" when he's talking about missing his dead wife: I miss the boys so much that it hurts. 
 

 
I agree with you so much. I cannot even say what it is that I miss, it is really a "feeling" that is the result of so many things.
Especially the "I've seen it before", yes! I love how Sherlock was always sth different.

I am even more convinced now that three people don't work very well in a close relationship. I am not against married people having close friends, but this was Mary running off with the friend while John was at home, or the other way round, and she was the person connecting scenes when I think it should have been Sherlock. John lived in both places at once and felt so empty as a character, n

The Six Thatchers » First impressons and discussions » January 2, 2017 12:16 am

Whisky
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tonnaree wrote:

Everyone being upset that John is OOC in blaming Sherlock for Mary's death.  My opinion is that there is no such thing as In Character when it comes to grief.  Everyone is OOC when gripped by that kind of pain.  I know from experience that you will say and do things that you would never have imagined of yourself.  To the point where loved ones may even comment that you are not yourself.  I think John's immediate reaction is totally understandable.

 

 
You are absolutely right. But to me, it didn't feel immediate. It felt like a set-up for another relationship-resolving arc. I don't mean John's grief as such feels wrong. But the way it is shown, or rather, used... I am not sure it is possible to seperate that, but I agree with you. It just felt more than just showing someone grieving, and doing irrational things in grief.

The Six Thatchers » First impressons and discussions » January 2, 2017 12:10 am

Whisky
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Mothonthemantel wrote:

I didn't want Mary to be redeemed but think she sort of was.
When she said Go to hell. . maybe she meant caring and loving John when he is whatever he is - is hell.

 
I like that thought.
But - is there a side of John Mary knows better than Sherlock? (apart from the obvious...)
John has been so angry at Sherlock already, and has been heartbroken about Sherlock, in front of Sherlock... is there anything Sherlock doesn't know yet?

I find it hard to believe Mary knows John's moods better than Sherlock. I think Sherlocks akward way of just loving John, in his own way, is not a bad strategy, bcause it is honest, and what John dislikes is lying. I think Sherlockknows very well what hell feels like, after TRF, where he is so close to losing John.

I think Sherlock has proven he will like John, whatever happens.
I thought it was established the other way round, too. That's where my confusion comes from.


What is Sherlock trying to do with the therapist?

The Six Thatchers » First impressons and discussions » January 2, 2017 12:00 am

Whisky
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@Vhanja -Wasn't that the paper Molly gave Sherlock in the scene at the door?

I interpreted it that way. Can be wrong, I was still processing other things at that point.... it all happened rather quickly 

The Six Thatchers » First impressons and discussions » January 1, 2017 11:56 pm

Whisky
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that note, yes, I am really curious what John wrote. now I think about it -
It also means that there is still a connection. explaining things or asking for things is not shutting out. it's communication. (which John and Mary should have done more...)

Poor Molly! She reminds me of Hermione in Harry Potter. One day, she will shout at both of them "I am not an owl!" She needs to stand her own ground. But she has such a good heart, she will always try to help and build bridges and help Sherlock and John bridge their fights and miscommunication. Maybe it's the acting, too. The way she stands there, holding the baby, was really moving.

Sherlock doesn't seem heartbroken over Mary, does he? And also not guilty, which I think logicL but also find strange. So he confesses a mistake, but Mycroft said he is so emotional now, but I don't see him there yet. He is, again, drowning his feelings in work. Even says so. He has been there before. Is his character developing for real?

Moftiss succeeded in the focus on relationships. The  case, though quite nice, somehow takes second place behind all this "family confusion".

The Six Thatchers » First impressons and discussions » January 1, 2017 11:37 pm

Whisky
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Now that I had some time to think about it, I find it interesting how my impressions and feelings and opinions about Mary and series three shift again. The feeling that is strongest is that Mary has been around for quite a long while and that I feel kind of relieved the story arc is finished (and I hope it is). I really enjoyed her role, I didn't enjoy how very close she got in between John and Sherlock, and I didn't enjoy her skill set. I like how her death links back to HLV.

I enjoyed the episode, I was hooked, and held my breath at points.
But it felt a bit strange. I didn't get this "Sherlock feeling" overall. Only felt that in some scenes which were scattered. also it was all so fast-paced.

what I didn't like so much was the way the Watson family was shown. god, that baby is just a pain in the ass for both of them, waking them, and needs being babysitted all the time because the parents aren't around. I liked the focus wasn't on the baby or family, but at the same time, the baby felt very much like a prop and not a character

Also bit sad about the action and bigscale case. i miss "normal" cases. not international-british government-cases. Aaaand there wasn't much 221b , also there was not much Mrs hudson or Molly   and because it was so confusing (or i thought so), it felt like Sherlock and John had no real chemistry. it was business-like, somehow.

John's bus scenes didn't add to the story, imo. they felt so unrelated. But I think maybe the woman from the bus will come back again.

I don't know, I am forgetting parts already. need to rewatch.

Right now, I still pine for the style of series 1 and 2, while I really start to love series 3 now, in comparison. which i found hard to love at first. but maybe i find this new episode even harder to embrace. I don't like how everything becomes so very personal on such a big scale. The original stories feel different. I cannot say what it is exactly, but it doesn't sit right with me

the end makes me feel conf

The Six Thatchers » First impressons and discussions » January 1, 2017 10:23 pm

Whisky
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Vhanja wrote:

In a way, I felt Mary played too big a part. Then again, I am fine with it seeing as she's dead now. I wanted that to happen, but darn, it was painful when it happened.

 
I agree with that.

But poor John. It's like TRF all over. So he was in a war, lost Sherlock, lost Mary... I start thinking he might just have had enough. That's one way I can understand his reaction towards Sherlock. Maybe Mary means nothing more than saving John from himself.

But I like how the focus shifts back on Sherlock and John now.

Oh, and can I say that Molly+ baby where adorable!  even jf the scene was sad

The Six Thatchers » First impressons and discussions » January 1, 2017 10:09 pm

Whisky
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I wasn't as surprised as I could have been. So, this death didn't come as a big shock... but, yes, emotional.

I don't get the end, really. Why blame Sherlock?
I mean, I understand, in a way... but then again, it's not Sherlock's fault. They have been through so much, why would John blame Sherlock now... he must have always known Mary was in that danger. And it was more her history than Sherlock's that lead to this.

It doesn't feel fair to Sherlock.

I felt the last 15 minutes where a bit rushed. I couldn't relate to all those feelings quickly enough... feeling a bit dazed by John's reaction...

Series Four News » sherlock series 4 (spoilers inside) » January 1, 2017 5:44 pm

Whisky
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I'm in the middle of nowhere and clinging to my internet as if there was something special going on today. Is there?  ... oh, and also three people keep rolling their eyes at me. Constantly. They also speak in soothing tones now.

oh my god i am so excited right now!! 

i just pray i can watch it all without problems. very worried it might not work.     

nice to know i'm not alone 

General Sherlock Discussion » John's blog and its connection with the show (including TAB) » December 30, 2016 10:52 am

Whisky
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I would have preferred if it had stayed the way it was. Then it could have been continued at some point.

i wonder what would bring John Watson to stop writing his blog though. Maybe it's a hint. Maybe he has more sinister things to do now.   

Series Four Suggestions & Ideas » Mary has a secret child » December 30, 2016 10:38 am

Whisky
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Someone we know? Sadly there aren't many characters around who would be old enough to be a father/mother of Mary.

Series Four Suggestions & Ideas » Mary has a secret child » December 30, 2016 10:04 am

Whisky
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Maybe it would explain a bit better why she had to keep her past secret. Maybe it wasn't just about her crimes, but also about protecting someone she loves but had to abandon for his\her own sake. That would also explain her character a bit better.

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