Liberty wrote:

Whisky wrote:

I don't agree with you Liberty. Concerning the attraction. I think Sherlock makes no difference between woman and men. When it comes to attraction. But john does.

As I said, I don't think the scene is about sexual orientation, and Sherlock's sexuality is still a little bit mysterious (while ever becoming less so!).  But I'm curious, where do you see Sherlock being attracted to men?  The two examples of people he is attracted to (in the greenhouse scene) are both women.  
 

 

i think Sherlock is not confessing to any attraction. john thinks it, but John would only see the women. E.g. he wouldn't list himself. Or anyone male. And as Sherlock already confesses at Angelos, to him gender doesn't matter so much. I just don't see that the attraction to the mentioned women is validated by Sherlock in the glasshouse scene. Personally I'd interpret, yes, Sherlock was in ways attracted to Irene. But he doesn't say so, not to John. I don't really see him giving in. I see him stating that he doesn't want to talk about it, which is not a yes. And as nobody mentiones a man, there is no comparison. But from earlier behaviour of Sherlock, I'd say it's about affection yes or no, and not about women or men. So Sherlock has this John in mind that links him to women. And he keeps denying and John keeps asking. As I said before, I see an annoyed Sherlock, not a Sherlock confessing to attraction to either of the women.
I think I'm expressing myself not very well, sorry.

nakahara wrote:

Whisky wrote:

About John and Mary: they married, which is a way of proclaiming romantic love, a way which is widely interpreted as being romantically motivated. I don't need to see the sex therefore. But it's not like John and Sherlock marry officially, so where is their doubtfree romantic act? People take bullets and risk death for siblings, friends, even for strangers, why is that proof of romance?

In criminalistics there is a nice maxim: you can´t take clue at the face value if it´s not being corroborated by facts of the case.
If we have marriage but it´s not corroborated by a loving behaviour from people involved, then we could hardly call it romance. And in John-Mary´s case there´s not much warmth and affection in their relationship. I certainly feel more "corroboration" coming from Sherlock-John connection than from John-Mary connection...

If taking risk of death is also possible for strangers just for the risk´s sake, then why did you use the argument "but Sherlock risked his life for Irene" in support of there being a romance between them originally?

 
because it's not proof. I just wanted to make clear that it's as much proof as the other way round. So if saving people means romance - i didn't say that - it means it either way.

nakahara wrote:

Liberty wrote:

Yes!  This is almost an hour and a half of insight into what's really in his mind.   If Johnlock was there, we'd have seen it.
The greenhouse scene pretty much confirms it too.  John points out two occasions when Sherlock seems to be interested in women (Lady Carmichael and Irene).  Sherlock tries to tell himself that he was just being observant or keeping a memento of a formidable opponent, but in each case, John says something telling that gives away that Sherlock was attracted.  And then they go straight into talking about why Sherlock doesn't have romantic entanglements.   Clearly he's seeing the women in the romantic/attraction sense, but suppresses his emotions - even tries to tell himself that he's the cold, calculating machine.   He's trying to control his thoughts there, but the truth is coming out.  

And this is exactly the heteronormative mindset we have spoken about.
John is willing to die with Sherlock at the end of TGG, they share thousands of magnetic looks and moments of closeness, Sherlock practically sings epics of how great John is and how he loves him in TSOT... but that doesn´t count as romance because people in question who behave like that are two males.
But Sherlock says a few apprasive words about Lady Carmichael (mostly to annoy her husband), he barely looks at her otherwise.... and boom! It´s romance and Sherlock is attracted to her! How could he not be - she´s female!

I don't agree with you Liberty. Concerning the attraction. I think Sherlock makes no difference between woman and men. When it comes to attraction. But john does.

@nakahara: I think the argument of heteronormativity can be overused. Who says people would see romantic coding if John was a female? Is it possible just to not see? In either constellation?

But my question was, why does Sherlock think about a naked Irene and not a naked John? I see sherlock and John confessing love in tSoT, too. But is it platonic? O

Just something that came to mind, and if it has been mentioned, sorry, I'm not up-to-date in this thread.
Just, in TAB, I found it interesting how Sherlock imagines John as the one trying to get intimate information out of Sherlock (glasshouse scene). To me it felt like Sherlock was getting annoyed and defensive. But as it was his own playground aka mind palace aka drugged mind, I think this reaction of him might have been honest. So that it's John who is trying to explore and it's Sherlock who is deliberately (!) shutting him out.
I don't see this scene supporting the Johnlock story arc. If there was the bigger Johnlock picture, wouldn't Sherlock's mind be the best place to show it?
The "eloping" fits in there, too. It's something that is thrown at Sherlock, he recognizes it as something that is thought about him and John, but he doesn't literally (or whatever is the equivalent in a drugged mind) "elope" with John there and then, when he could have (it's just in his mind anyway).
All restrictions of show reality are lifted, and yet it's not happening. That's telling. We even saw a naked Irene already in mind palace already. So why not naked John, if that's where it's headed?
I would argue "because Sherlock doesn't allow himself" if it was mind palace, but I tend to think that in a drugged state, he would be less in control over his thoughts. He doesn't seem in control at all.

I'm late to this. Didn't have time before... Saw TAB last week on DVD.
I really really liked it. My expectations were not too high, but in the end, the Special really got to me. I loved it. I think I prefer present time, but for a one-off, it was perfect. This might sound stupid, but I loved the fact it was mind palace. I loved how Sherlock Holmes is timeless, out of his time, that was my favourite line. And Molly, amazing.
This is a terribly short review, because there was so much, but that's just my first impression.
Also, this bride sing-song is totally stuck in my head. it was pleasantly scary this episode.

Lestrade: "....now that John and Sherlock are finally out of that closet, I think I might just jump in there.. oh my God Mycroft, you're already in there too?!?"

Edited.
I need a beta for my Santa Fic, and just realised I'm supposed to PM you :-)
Will do :-)
 

God rest you, Dr. Watson:

I loved the warm christmas atmosphere, which put me in a good mood :-)
I like how Mycroft is caring in his actions, and not as distanced as usual. Him carrying shopping bags made me laugh :-)
I like how John kind of confesses a love for dogs, and how he offers to help Sherlock even if he cannot run around with him. And Sherlock shows again how much he relies on John coming with him during cases - but I also love how he acts grown-up and goes for the case alone instead of making a big argument (a small one is always nice to have, I confess) 
the idea of a cozy night in at a decorated Baker Street is always welcome :-)  could imagine it very well, hope Sherlock will make tasty tea for John as often as he wants one.
The descriptions gave me a great feeling of christmas vibes :-)
lovely little story 

When I was watching episodes every day, I started ticking sheets.
I've watched them all more than a hundred times. Isn't that scary.
The one I have chosen most is TRF. Maybe I just like suffering.

Vhanja wrote:

Lol, I just saw the most hilarious and awesome fic tag I've seen in a while:

#I hope my mum doesn't read this

 

 
Don't we all