Count me in.

Liberty wrote:

besleybean wrote:

Possibly depends on your definition of hiding it.
John:
Currently married to his pregnant wife.
Before that, had a string of girlfriends.
Never been shown to have an interest in men.

Sherlock:
Never really been in an official relationship with anybody.
Only been linked with women.
Never been shown to have an interest in men.

Yes.  If the writers wanted to show the characters as gay or bi, this isn't how they would do it!  

Imagine if it had been the other way round: if John had only been shown dating men (repeatedly), and perhaps marrying one, with no interest in any women.  Is it possible that somebody like that could fall for a woman?  Yes, of course.  But is this how the writers would choose to show a character they wanted us to perceive as straight or bi?  It seems very unlikely.

I would personally love to see more such coded characters, because this situation for bi people needs a lot of representation.

Anyway this is not the gender reversed situation of what is happening on Sherlock, because in Sherlock interest has been shown from the start between Sherlock and John.
If a romantic arc had been shown whit a woman in a reversed situation I'd be shipping the man with the woman and I'd think he's bi. 

This said, one should consider the fact that straight people are not discriminated, while bi people are, so instead of "equal treatment" there should be "equal results" (a situation akin to how taxes work) and, since people usually claim characters are not queer on a wrong basis and might think that the dating men was "just a phase", it would be good to make it clear on screen that the person is bi to avoid discussion. To avoid it being romance-baiting or queerbaiting with the "bi" used as an excuse, it is also important that the relationships are coded in such a way that the romantic coding (such as tropes, not who x is dating) supports the relationship with the woman at least as much as that with other men.

Last edited by Ho Yay (January 25, 2016 6:43 pm)

besleybean wrote:

Well Sherlock's at least shared a bedroom, if not bed, with Janine.
I don't remember any bathroom slap and tickle with John, either.

Sherlock was faking the whole relationship, so it is no relevant at all.
With John there is no such contact because the romantic arc is in the stage of "Unresolved Sexual Tension", but it's heavily coded as a romance, with some sexual coding too (this has got quite heavy heavy in TAB). I have a list of tropes used but it's not updated yet. Once you accept the explicit coding you also have to add the romantic interpretation of whole scenes which becomes the most supported.
 

Yes, I know Sherlock and Janine never actually had a relationship.
But the fact remains, in the series, he has only ever been linked with women...as has John.

Something upon which we will have to disagree.

My only relationship was with the gender opposite of my assigned at birth gender too and I never dated any other gender, but that does not mean that I am straight either.
This attitude towards erasing bisexuality in media actually extends to real lives to the point that I am not believed when I say I am bi. I really am not believed about myself in real life and it's tiring. I am also closeted towards some people even if no particular threat makes me.
Erasing bisexuality because of who one has dated or dismissing the possibility of closeted people it's part of one big problem coming from real life, which influences and is influenced by media. It's the heteronormative mindset.

Last edited by Ho Yay (January 25, 2016 10:11 pm)

nakahara wrote:

Ho Yay wrote:

Erasing bisexuality because of who one has dated or dismissing the possibility of closeted people it's part of one big problem coming from real life, which influences and is influenced by media. It's the heteronormative mindset.

Cannot agree more, Ho Yay. This erasure of other people´s experiences, because they don´t fit the heteronormative outlook on life - it happens in RL more than in fiction, certainly...

It can be seen here in this thread too: Sherlock´s deep connection with John is ignored, but his entirely fake reltionship with Janine is taken at face´s value. Because Sherlock-John connection is gay, Sherlock-Janine is heteronormative.... 

 
I just wanna give this a big thumbs up.

I was especially refering to this post:

besleybean wrote:

Well Sherlock's at least shared a bedroom, if not bed, with Janine.
I don't remember any bathroom slap and tickle with John, either.

Both scenes are hidden references to two other scenes.
The glasshouse scene is a reference to the scene in The Private Life Of Sherlock Holmes in which Watson nags Sherlock about having been with women and Sherlock replies that he's being presumptuous (TPLOSH has a gay Sherlock and it's one of the main inspiration of BBC Sherlock). TAB takes this scene to an extreme with John not stopping asking and embarrassing Sherlock. More than shutting him out it looks to me like Sherlock is playing a "oh don't ask me, please let's have this conversation, don't ask me, please do", he wants John to know he feels things that way and imagines John like John understands that, but Sherlock is still shy about his feelings being in the open. This scene was even predicted by the Johnlockers, we were actively waiting for it and instantely recognised when it aired, so it is hardly something that doesn't fit the Johnlock picture.
The elope comment is another reference to a Doctor Who episode with the lesbian Johnlock conterpart and their Moriarty, in which they are offended by the implication of impropriety. Sherlock and John do not elope, they properly marry!
I've written about it here: 
http://bug-catcher-in-viridian-forest.tumblr.com/post/136486549031/sherlock-tv-series-offensive-an-implication
The whole exchange on at the falls was super like, super lovey that even Moriarty remarks on it and they smile about it too, they are happy of being a couple.

As I said countless times before, we are in the middle of the series, they are not going to resolve the sexual tension now for the viewers, doesn't matter the circumstances. Even if it's Sherlock mind palace and in a few minutes maybe there would be some thoughts about naked John it would not make it to the content the viewers see because it would break the sexual tension for them that has to be kept up, that's how slow burn romances work on TV. Sherlock and John are doing everything short of actually breaking this tension, as it should be in a long romantic arc. It's a "Will they/Won't they" trope, you don't get extreme confirmation in the middle, even if every viewer who knows how TV romance works can imagine that it will result in a "They will".
I have already asked this question before "What do you think should the creators show to make sure that people understand they are in a romantic arc before they get together without kissing/sexual things/confessions which should happen when they get together near the end?" and I think everything that was suggested had actually happened.
 

Last edited by Ho Yay (January 26, 2016 2:14 am)

Even without catching the references, without presuming that they are not interested in each other, with all the previous romantic coding, one should feel inclined to see those scene with a romantic interpretation, instead of seeing them in a bubble of it's own where all the previous romantic coding isn't there.
If Sherlock has shown interest in John for 3 series and in the glasshouse scene acts all embarrassed and imagines John thinking he has feelings, one might presume he's embarassed by his feeling towards John.
Same at the waterfall, with all the romantic coding and with it being just suggested that they elope, if they are all smiling saying "offensive" in such a sweet way, one might imagine that they are joking at the thought of eloping rather than being together the proper way.

I think shippers usually have the opposite sentiment, they are not bored by the waiting, they are excited and that's the exact reason why TV works that way, because once the tension is resolved it's harder to write the romance in an interesting way. I think established romance good writing should totally be developed and I hope it happens is Sherlock for at a least a couple of specials when they are older and the main series is finished, but it's hard writing to keep viewers ultra excited while the tension is resolved, the story is still good, but there is no screaming.
But the story has been built in such a way that there are actual obstacles, such as Mary, Moriarty and every evil thing in season 4. So it's not like Sherlock is going to be there quiet just to keep the tension up. They are going to fight the obstacles to get together.
These obstacles are not only their enemies, but also their ignorance. At this point both Sherlock and John probably know they are in love and rather be with each other, but they still are not sure the other feels the same, so they cannot just confess.