The Empty Hearse » The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer?? » January 6, 2014 5:46 pm |
ruthinks, couldn't agree more. There was so much debth and darkness in TRF. I am really missing that so far. And to explain Moriarty's last words simply with him going rapidly over the edge, simply doesn't do it for me. Nothing of that darkness is reflected in the solution. BTW, everyone around me, who followed the show more casually, dislike it or are pretty indifferent, and say, they might not follow anymore. 'The Solution' doesn't get very high marks either. Some aquaintance, who works as an fire expert for the police, said to me, that you would never come up with such a ridiculous pillow, if you try to save a person on a roof top of a burning house. There are much better and safer devices, which you don't have to blow up before using, and are less conspicous to boot, btw. Since all this was thought out some time in advance as one of the 13 scenarios by Sherlock and Mycroft, he said, they really should've been able to come up with something better. But I really, really cannot see a way to present another solution in the next episode, and to carry it over into the next season, which might be aired two years from now... I don't see it.
The Empty Hearse » The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer?? » January 6, 2014 3:17 pm |
Stayin' alive, I'm absolutely convinced for several reasons, that Moriarty is dead (one of them being, that Anderson seems to assume, he's dead), but otherwise I feel with you. The theory, we got, is pretty crappy IMO, but now, that I've read the article in the Sunday Times, where The BBC is quoted, saying, it won't be revisited, I think, we're done with it, and have to leave it or like it. I have my ideas, why Mofftiss kept it so vague, and didn't explain many clues and loose ends. It may have something to do with the big time lapse in between seasons, like 'killing Sherlock is sooo two years ago'. Maybe, they just decided to start with a more or less clean slate. By keeping it a bit ambiguos, they can avoid critism and always point out, that only poor Anderson came up with the ridiculous blue pillow. A big copout IMO, but others think, it's brilliant. I suspect, that season 4 might prove an equally long wait. Then, TRF would be four years ago. It's pretty much impossible to revisit TRF then. So, I think, the faction of our fandom, which dislikes the presented solution, has to come to terms with it. I, for one will still watch and enjoy, but I will never again invest time into video sleuthing and hunting for clues, since there doesn't seem to be any reliability, and part of the charm, the show had for me, is lost. And, while I dread the end of season three, I do hope, they go back to what they did best in seasons 1 and 2: Solving crimes with their brains.
The Empty Hearse » How he did it - Theory/ theories after seing The Empty Hearse » January 6, 2014 12:27 pm |
S.he, I understand your disappointment. I feel the same. But the Sunday Times is a VERY respectable paper. That doesn't mean, that they would intensely research a relatively unimprtant subject for the world at large, like this one, but I'd regard a statement from BBC (British Broadcasting Corporation), which finances and broadcasts the show, as official as it could get.
The Empty Hearse » How he did it - Theory/ theories after seing The Empty Hearse » January 6, 2014 10:42 am |
Ok, this article in the Sunday Times in connection with So3 (which, just seen by itself, I really liked, though not so much, concerning the big picture) convinced me, that the fall won't be revisited, and theory 3 was it, whatever that means, given the way, it was presented to Anderson (or not). I find it interesting, that apart from the misgivings, some of us have with the presented solution, experts, quoted in that article, are less than thrilled with it. My biggest gripe with theory 3 solution is now, that apart from all the things, which were difficult to pull off so precisely, it was incredibly dangerous. But since we were told, that this thing had a lot of advance planning and was not a last minute solution, one has to wonder, how a duo of braniacs couldn't have come up with a simpler and less dangerous method to fake Sherlock's death. Even a huge firefighter net would've been less dangerous, less noisy and much less noticeable than this silly blue pillow.But I really can't see a way, how they could introduce that theme again and have it possibly spill over into season 4. Personally, I find that extremely disappointing and a huge cop out, others think differently and might be relieved, that the endless theorizing can stop. I might do a post with my thoughts, why they choose to deal with the fall solution in such an ambigouos way, and why there are so many loose ends and clues not dealt with at all, but theory wise I'm through with how he did it.
The Empty Hearse » How he did it - Theory/ theories after seing The Empty Hearse » January 5, 2014 8:14 pm |
Hey, thanks for the article, sanaz. The article makes it clear, that even from a practical point of view, the given explanation isn't a very good one. Oh well, we mystery mongers can all go home now, if the BBC's statement is true. But wasn't it a show for us mystery mongers? Oh, well...
The Empty Hearse » How he did it - Theory/ theories after seing The Empty Hearse » January 5, 2014 7:32 pm |
Is there anyone here, who can read The Sunday Times? According to someone quoted at finalproblem.tumblr there's an article from a Hannah Summers in that newspaper, where the BBC is quoted, that theory No 3 is it, and it will not be revisited. If that is a legit quote of a true statement, I'd like to know, because it would all us theory mongers save a lot of time.
The Empty Hearse » How he did it - Theory/ theories after seing The Empty Hearse » January 5, 2014 7:14 pm |
besleybean, 'It is done' can refer to any number of things, it certainly can mean, they were successfully called back. I just sounds a little sinister. But, as I said, it's just speculative. But I never liked the thought, that Mycroft just orders to kill people as a way of problem solving. Very inelegant and messy, and attracts attention.
And, yes, it's strange, that the parenst weren't at the funeral. Maybe, they were not able to fake grief.
The Empty Hearse » How he did it - Theory/ theories after seing The Empty Hearse » January 5, 2014 7:00 pm |
So if Sherlock figured out the recall code and I stumbled upon something, which makes me think, he did, this has huge implicatons: Mycroft wouldn't have to bump off the sniper. And it was never said, he did. The wording is: 'He was invited to reconsider'. Which could simply mean, the code word was used. Much cleaner solution without a messy body, which has to be cleaned up after, and the sniper himself could call back the other killers. No need to track them all down. But then Sherlock didn't jump in order to save his friends (that wasn't necessary anymore, if the correct recall code was used), but in order to go undercover, which, as I think, was planned fromm the beginning. So, this is very speculative at the moment. Nothing about my last post contradicts theory 3, btw. It was never said or shown, that the sniper was killed.
The Empty Hearse » How he did it - Theory/ theories after seing The Empty Hearse » January 5, 2014 6:34 pm |
Well, Sherlock didn't seem to think, it's obvious, because he made a big deal about Moriarty slipping up. He said: 'So there is a recall code or a word or a number".I don't think, either, it's obvious. Moriarty might have given out the parole: 'Whatever happens to me or what I might say under torture, shoot Sherlock's friends, if you dont't see him jump'.
The Empty Hearse » How he did it - Theory/ theories after seing The Empty Hearse » January 5, 2014 6:13 pm |
Sanaz, no, so far, that was never explained. As to Sherlock laughing: That was self explanatory: He realized, that there must be a recall code for the snipers, since Moriarty said, even, if he was tortured, he wasn't going to stop the killers, which implies, they could be stopped. I even have an idea by now, what the recall code might have been.
The Empty Hearse » How he did it - Theory/ theories after seing The Empty Hearse » January 5, 2014 6:05 pm |
Sanaz, re: the moment of privacy. I alway assumed, that something was going on down there, which Moriarty wasn't supposed to see, or Sherlock signaled something somehow to someone. Another thing, which isn't supported by theory 3, since, according to that theory, all the action started AFTER Moriarty's suicide. So, it's a good question, since we can assume, that Sherlock certainly didn't need this moment of privacy for coming to grips with his imminent suicide, as Moriarty was supposed to believe.
The Empty Hearse » How he did it - Theory/ theories after seing The Empty Hearse » January 5, 2014 5:28 pm |
Apropos 'dummy'. At my dvd of TRF, the corps crashing onto the pavement makes a positvely rattling sound, a sound a crash dummy might make. On one of the life streams, this sound is even more pronounced. You could say, that is so, because they REALLY used a crash dummy for filming it. They would, of course never use a dead body. But they could've easily edit this sound out instead of just making it less pronounced with a blanket of music.
The Empty Hearse » How he did it - Theory/ theories after seing The Empty Hearse » January 5, 2014 5:11 pm |
I like Sherlock Holmes' argument, that the big blue pillow is really silly. It wasn't even inflated, when they brought it. And inflating such a thing quickly, makes noise! And it's super visible, when carried away. There was a big chance, John or other unauthorized persons might catch a glimps after all. IMO, this was simply the prop, they used to film the whole thing with.Other than that, I believe right now (i'm so changeable), what I started to believe after seing TEH first: That AlL theories, we got presented with, are wrong in some ways, and correct in others. If they really give us a different theory, I think, it will include a mask and a dummy : if John needed to see a corpse on the pavement, there's no need at all to throw down this improbable lookalike dead body when you can use a dummy with a mask. Remember, Sherlock had a dummy hanging in his appartment. It even had a name: Henry Fishbone. No need to defile a corps. But I believe, that Mycroft and Sherlock might have planned a lot of that in advance. And there's definitely something up with the sniper or rather snipers. The sequence shown in TRF never made sense to me from points of visual perspectives. Maybe, a net was in play. It would've the advantage, that there is no noise, when Sherlock falls into it, and it's gone as quick as it appeared. And, in case theory 3 wasn't a dream of Anderson, we need to know, WHY it was put out there AND taped, which implies, it will be presented to other people.
The Empty Hearse » Mistakes? » January 5, 2014 4:40 pm |
No, ruthinks, I never do that. it's just a personal touch.
The Empty Hearse » Moriarty theories - The Empty Hearse » January 5, 2014 4:36 pm |
One other thing: I also thought at first, that the second crackpot theory points to Moriarty's death not being common knowledge. But that's not necessarily true. This member of 'The Empty Hearse' could have thought, that Moriarty was killed by someone, after he shared a kiss with Sherlock (Maybe, Moran was jealous, lol!). Or that he killed himself after the kiss, because life couldn't get any better . I'm joking, but since her fantasy didn't include, that moriarty walked into the sunset, we cannot draw the conclusion, that Moriarty's death isn't public knowledge. We can only say, that apparently Anderson knows about Moriarty being dead. Or, that he at least strongly suspects, that Moriarty is dead.
The Empty Hearse » Mistakes? » January 5, 2014 4:18 pm |
besleybean, yes we can. Or, at least I can.
The Empty Hearse » Moriarty theories - The Empty Hearse » January 5, 2014 4:07 pm |
macytree, thanks for creating this thread. and I entirely agree with DavidM's conlusion, you quoted above. That were exactly my thoughts, when I started this discussion on the other thread, where it really didn't belong. We should be careful, though: Maybe, Moftiss made just a joke and pandered to different fan theories without thinking it through completely. But logically there's nothing wrong with DavidM's conclusions.
The Empty Hearse » Mistakes? » January 5, 2014 3:59 pm |
Sanaz, good that you posted the link to the finalproblem.tumblr. The observations about the missing blood puddle under the corpse, which was very visible and had a very peculiar shape in TRF, is a good catch. It's hard to believe in such a gross continuity error. The lady, who owns this tumblr is very observant and one of the saner analyzers. While I don't share many of her conclusions, she very good in detecting illogical things and discrepancies. I'm more confident now, that we will see another solution.
Mary Me, Hi from Germany. Bear with us 'conspiracy theorists', lol! This is fiction and fun for many. And it would be good story telling, if Mofftiss have another ace in the sleeve, at least IMO. If nothing more comes forward, we will admit to having been wrong. Until then, let us theorize and point out weirdnesses and mistakes. The lady from finalproblem tumbrl put a hashtag on all TEH doubting posts, so that all, who are not interested in speculating anymore, can avoid it.
The Empty Hearse » The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer?? » January 4, 2014 5:29 pm |
No, I don't think, Sherlock believed into the binary code, that was pretending, and he gained time, but that weird moment, when they talk about shaking hands in hell, and Moriarty suddenly realizes, that Sherlock isn't ordinary after all, looking into Sherlock's face, as if he has seen a miracle, I really think, they are talking about something specific. Moriarty isn't simply unwinding. He was very much in control, when he told Sherlock, nobody could make him do things, he didn't want to. Then he looks into Sherlock's eyes, and changes his mind. Why? He was so sure before, that no torture in hell could extract the code word for calling back the killers. What did he realize?
The Empty Hearse » The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer?? » January 4, 2014 4:45 pm |
Ha, ha ruthinks, that's a really weird (and almost certainly not correct) solution. But it touches something very important, IMO. This weird dialog on the roof top, and this moment, when Moriarty is looking at Sherlock's eyes, and sees or realizes SOMETHING, screams for an explanation. I was looking forward to that more than anything. Even, if I'm ready to accept theory No 3, I want an explanation for THAT moment. I'm assuming, of course, that Sherlock wasn't merely trash talking, so his crew could blow up the pillow. lol! This dialog was brilliant writing, but without further explanation it's pretty meaningless.