Johnlock: The Official Debate

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Posted by sj4iy
September 29, 2013 4:05 pm
#21

Swanpride wrote:

And concerning Donnovan: I think she is right not to trust Sherlock. But I also think that her triumphant behavior towards John in TRF was very unprofessional.

I completely agree with that.


__________________________________________________________________Bigby: Will you shut up?
Colin: Well, maybe if my throat wasn’t so parched, I wouldn’t have to keep talking.
Bigby: Wait, that doesn’t make se-
Coline: Just give me a drink, please.
 
Posted by tonnaree
September 29, 2013 7:10 pm
#22

I enjoy johnlock and watch the BBC show with my slashglasses firmly in place.  Even if it's not what they are going for the chemistry between the two leads makes it very easy for me to indulge.  No one has to agree with me, just let me have my fun.

And in agreement with other posts I dislike people who take it overboard on either side of the argument.  This forum alone offers proof that everyone who doesn't ship Johnlock is NOT a homophobe, but I have seen some awfully hateful posts in other places.   I've seen Johnlock discribed as disgusting, imoral and sick.  IMO these people are also a disgrace to our fandom.

 


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Proud President and Founder of the OSAJ.  
Honorary German  
"Anyone who takes himself too seriously always runs the risk of looking ridiculous; anyone who can consistently laugh at himself does not".
 -Vaclav Havel 
"Life is full of wonder, Love is never wrong."   Melissa Ethridge

I ship it harder than Mrs. Hudson.
    
 
 
Posted by besleybean
September 29, 2013 7:19 pm
#23

Wow.  I have honestly never encountered that before.That is horrendous.
Where have you seen these things?


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 
Posted by tonnaree
September 29, 2013 7:38 pm
#24

Pinerest comments.  Some on IMGUR.   A couple of lesser discussion forums I immediately abandoned in my search for a "Sherlock homebase."


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Proud President and Founder of the OSAJ.  
Honorary German  
"Anyone who takes himself too seriously always runs the risk of looking ridiculous; anyone who can consistently laugh at himself does not".
 -Vaclav Havel 
"Life is full of wonder, Love is never wrong."   Melissa Ethridge

I ship it harder than Mrs. Hudson.
    
 
 
Posted by Harriet
September 29, 2013 7:41 pm
#25

Plus some comments here on this board in former times, quite a while ago. I remember them well.


Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.   Independent OSAJ Affiliate

... but there may be some new players now. It’s okay. The East Wind takes us all in the end.
 
Posted by besleybean
September 29, 2013 7:43 pm
#26

Really, Harriet?
That's disappopinting.
Maybe before my time.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 
Posted by Harriet
September 29, 2013 7:44 pm
#27

Could be before your time. Could be around your arrival time. I think these days are over.


Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.   Independent OSAJ Affiliate

... but there may be some new players now. It’s okay. The East Wind takes us all in the end.
 
Posted by besleybean
September 29, 2013 7:45 pm
#28

We can only hope so.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 
Posted by Sherlock Holmes
September 29, 2013 8:22 pm
#29

Anybody who's homophobic really shouldn't be in the fandom, because that means they're against Mark Gatiss. Which is obviously just completely stupid.


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Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.

Independent OSAJ Affiliate

 
Posted by NotYourHousekeeperDear
September 29, 2013 8:23 pm
#30

sj4iy wrote:

NotYourHousekeeperDear wrote:

I think Sherlock's apparent lack of interest in relationships with women could be argued as being more telling, especially as it would have been less typical of the time.

I don't see how it's telling of anything other than Sherlock Holmes was not a man interested in marriage.  Even if he had never met Watson, the chances of his marrying anyone was nil.  He is simply too obsessed with his work to ever give consideration to a romantic relationship.
 

 
True! His lack of interest in a relationship is perhaps only suggestive of his asexuality.


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"You can always tell a good Chinese place by examining the bottom third of the door handle"
 
Posted by tonnaree
September 29, 2013 8:24 pm
#31

Everyone I have encountered as an active poster here seems to be pretty tolerant of other's opinions.  


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Proud President and Founder of the OSAJ.  
Honorary German  
"Anyone who takes himself too seriously always runs the risk of looking ridiculous; anyone who can consistently laugh at himself does not".
 -Vaclav Havel 
"Life is full of wonder, Love is never wrong."   Melissa Ethridge

I ship it harder than Mrs. Hudson.
    
 
 
Posted by besleybean
September 29, 2013 8:26 pm
#32

@the boss.
And Ian and the orhers who aren't out!
I once belonged to a  forum where homophobia was completely banned and people got thrown off if they displayed it.  That's up to the Admin, of course.
I once got thrown out of a Yahoo group, because I defended a gay guy that the Admin had kicked out.

Last edited by besleybean (September 29, 2013 8:27 pm)


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 
Posted by Harriet
September 29, 2013 8:29 pm
#33

Sherlock Holmes wrote:

Anybody who's homophobic really shouldn't be in the fandom, because that means they're against Mark Gatiss. Which is obviously just completely stupid.

I was not talking about homophobia. I was talking about rude anti-Johnlock speech, supporting the issue tonnaree brought up.


Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.   Independent OSAJ Affiliate

... but there may be some new players now. It’s okay. The East Wind takes us all in the end.
 
Posted by SolarSystem
September 29, 2013 8:33 pm
#34

tonnaree wrote:

I enjoy johnlock and watch the BBC show with my slashglasses firmly in place.  Even if it's not what they are going for the chemistry between the two leads makes it very easy for me to indulge.

I completely agree. And I would even take it a step further and say that it's not just the chemistry between the two leads that makes it easy to let your mind wander into the direction of Johnlock. Because even if Mark and Steven say that they 'only' went for bromance, I think that they nevertheless paved the way for a bit more with their writing. Because honestly, they really don't need this "He's not my date" running gag sort of thing for bromance... so why include it? Why have Angelo or Irene voice stuff like "For you and your date" or "Somebody loves you"? You really don't need these things to make the bromance work, I would rather say that these things almost beg you to start thinking into the direction of 'could there be more...?'.
So if they really didn't want to give the audience any ideas which go further than bromance, why include those innuendos? I just don't get it.

 


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?

"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 
Posted by SusiGo
September 29, 2013 8:53 pm
#35

I agree with you, Solar. There is a lot of innuendo and not only of a sexual kind. Think of Jeanette's anger or the dialogue about people going on dates from TBB. It is never explicit but somehow lingers in the background. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 
Posted by besleybean
September 29, 2013 8:56 pm
#36

But that's all how other characters perceive them  and to be fair, it's mainly part of Sherlock being seen as different.
Well I personally think the writers did a great job and I have no complaints.
Well, apart from the union jack cushion so far and I think I may have more complaints next series!


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 
Posted by SusiGo
September 29, 2013 8:58 pm
#37

What about the cushion?


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 
Posted by SolarSystem
September 29, 2013 9:04 pm
#38

That's true, Susi. Or think of Mrs. Hudson in TGG asking Sherlock if they'd had a "little domestic" or in ASiP her "There's another bedroom upstairs...". It's there, and it goes beyond bromance.

And yes, I know that it's always other people who are bringing this up, it's not John or Sherlock. John only reacts to it, Sherlock doesn't even do that. But it's almost as if Mark and Steven are using those other characters and there explicit statements to show the audience what to look out for...? If these things weren't articulated in that way, maybe Johnlock wouldn't be as apparent as it sometimes seems to be to many of us.


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?

"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 
Posted by SolarSystem
September 29, 2013 9:09 pm
#39

besleybean wrote:

But that's all how other characters perceive them  and to be fair, it's mainly part of Sherlock being seen as different.

Yes, but why do that? Why have the other characters perceive them like that? You just don't need this to make the bromance work, so why do it? If they didn't mention these things, the show would still work perfectly.


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?

"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 
Posted by sj4iy
September 29, 2013 9:52 pm
#40

True story:

My husband is a very easy-going, non-offensive guy that I met in college.  We started dating, and I quickly realized that one of his best friends was a HUGE primadonna that would get mad if he didn't get his way.  Since my husband (then-boyfriend) was a pretty big pushover, his friend ran the show, and there would be times that our plans would get scrapped because his friend wanted to do something else.  After this happened a bunch of times, I finally put my foot down and told my husband that I cared for him very much, but I was tired of playing second-fiddle to his friend (sound familiar?).  Well, my husband got the message and he informed his friend that he could still do things with him, but that it couldn't be the way it was before.

Basically, I see John as a pushover when it comes to Sherlock; John hasn't found the right woman that he's willing to put his foot down to Sherlock over...yet.  It doesn't mean that there's underlying sexual tension- it just means that Sherlock is his best friend whom he respects and admires so much that he's willing to put up with Sherlock running off his girlfriends...for now.  We'll see what happens as the show goes on, though.

Last edited by sj4iy (September 29, 2013 9:54 pm)


__________________________________________________________________Bigby: Will you shut up?
Colin: Well, maybe if my throat wasn’t so parched, I wouldn’t have to keep talking.
Bigby: Wait, that doesn’t make se-
Coline: Just give me a drink, please.
 


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