Series 3 spoiler alert, disregard this post if you don't want to see any.  Here comes some protective space.







Haven't we seen a photograph suggesting that Molly was inside St. Bart's at the time, standing by a window?

MNRebecca wrote:

Series 3 spoiler alert, disregard this post if you don't want to see any.  Here comes some protective space.







Haven't we seen a photograph suggesting that Molly was inside St. Bart's at the time, standing by a window?

Yes.  And the pigeons fly away from the window, which makes me suspect that she's watching the entire thing.
 

Sergey1 wrote:

Mattlocked wrote:

I don't like the part "Molly killed..." very much.

Maybe Molly asked someone to kill Sherlock's double. Anyway, she helped Sherlock.
I must say that I can speak German 
 

Molly wouldn't kill anyone.  Not even for Sherlock.  Not even be associated with one.  And Sherlock wouldn't ask her to.  All they would have to do is find someone in a morgue somewhere in the city and have it sent over, it's not that big of a deal.

tobeornot221b wrote:

sj4iy wrote:

Haven't we seen a photograph suggesting that Molly was inside St. Bart's at the time, standing by a window?
Yes.  And the pigeons fly away from the window, which makes me suspect that she's watching the entire thing.
 

Sorry, I just can't see any connection between Molly and the pigeons. After all, she isn't Cinderella or something.

No, I meant that the pigeons are roosting on the windowsill as we see Sherlock's body from above.  Suddenly, the pigeons are startled and fly away.  City pigeons don't move for anything other than you getting right on top of them.  Someone is looking down at what's happening from the window above. IE: Molly.

tobeornot221b wrote:

Molly, or the helicopter...

;)

MNRebecca wrote:

Howdy, all.  I'm trying to find discussion of my favorite theory, that Sherlock did nothing to fake his death, that he went over that ledge fully believing he was giving his life for his friends.

Yes, I'd love some discussion on that too It was my first idea, and while I went through many other explanations and theories, I've always come back to it. Because it's unexpected and logical and just... I don't know. It has got some flaws, but other theories have got those, too.

Producers interest would be to surprise people... it’s nice if we can say: „oh, we got it all right, we’re such brilliant minds, just like Sherlock is“...
But i guess we would be even more thrilled if the explanation turned out to be something completely different, a real surprise... and I suppose that’s what the producers tried to achieve, so I’m sure it’s gonna be the Unexpected (like the mobile during the pool scene). Sherlock doing nothing to fake his death would be just that.

Also, in the original stories, in "The Empty House" Sherlock confesses to John that he honestly thought he was going to die when he met Moriarty. I know there are loads of changes in the series, but I'd like to see that this, and Mycrofts involvement, will somehow still be true. I do not doubt Mycrofts involvement, so why should I doubt the above? :D

I like to think that Mycroft is doing the thinking there, making the plans - and Sherlock is for once just a pawn in the game. Because Sherlock is a match for Moriarty, but in the end he is just good enough - he isn't ahead of the game, he isn't cleverer than Moriarty - he did believe in the computer key code, as he did believe that Moriarty really wanted the USB stick in "The Great Game". So maybe both dying, Moriarty and Sherlock, would have been a fair end for two equals. So maybe with choosing the rooftop Sherlock was just trying to show Moriarty that he understood the plan with the genius suicide - but maybe Sherlock, at that point, still thought he could bargain with the key code, or maybe he had some other plan up his sleeve... and then Moriarty surprises him, the key code means nothing, Sherlock has to think things over, and the shock when Moriarty shoots himself seems genuine to me.

Mycroft is clever enough, maybe he could see where Moriarty would take the game. His apology to John isn't just for selling out Sherlocks life story, I don't think so. And I do think Mycroft is the genius there, not Molly. I would really like to see Sherlock putting all his trust to Molly, but no, I don't think so. And the teaser trailer suggests otherwise anyway. But Mycroft telling Sherlock he plans to save him? Cannot see that - if he does, it's a secret thing, something Sherlock wouldn't know - because Sherlock wouldn't agree to any plan Mycroft suggests, would he.

I do think the confusion, the shock, the crying on the rooftop are all honest on Sherlocks part. I know it doesn't seem very likely, but in the pool scene, Sherlock is shocked that Moriarty got his hands on John. And in Hounds of Baskerville, he is actually afraid. So the possibility of real emotion is there

I believe that Sherlock definitely had a plan to survive but there was always room for error.  He intended to survive if it all went to plan but there was always a possibility that he could fail and would have to kill himself for real.

Whisky wrote:

Producers interest would be to surprise people...

I cling to the hope that the creators focus solely on producing quality content.  J.K. Rowling's fixation on the fandom seems to have seriously degraded the final three books of the Harry Potter series. 

MNRebecca wrote:

Whisky wrote:

Producers interest would be to surprise people...

I cling to the hope that the creators focus solely on producing quality content.  J.K. Rowling's fixation on the fandom seems to have seriously degraded the final three books of the Harry Potter series. 

Well I am late to get back to this, but real life gets in the way sometimes...
anyway, you do have a point there! I wouldn't be happy if they just tried to please fans and the quality would suffer from it (and yes, the last books of Harry Potter were... not what they could have been. But I am not sure if that was only because of fan expectations).

Back to the theories... MNRebecca, I really support your points there.

I find it really hard to keep this theory up with spoiler/setlock stuff coming in... but it's not impossible, so I won't eliminate it ;) And my strongest hope is still the canon... if the producers really love the canon so much, would they go against it in this case? In minor cases, yes of course, but with the Fall? I cannot imagine... What about "my note to you was genuine"? I wouldn't like it one bit if they messed around with that one ;)

(But then again, I am not even sure that part is the equivalent to the goodbye phone call. It could also translate to the fact that Moriarty wants Sherlock destroyed, and John knows about this - Sherlock keeps him informed, is honest with him and only shuts him out in the very last moment when he realises Moriartys full intentions. While there is so much canon in the series, sometimes I am not quite sure which part translates to which.)