Posted by sj4iy July 8, 2013 4:05 pm | #41 |
Be wrote:
Sorry, can't. Trust issues.
That's fine, whatever you're comfortable with. It is a tv show, however, and I can't imagine that anyone takes it very seriously. I don't. I don't mind if I'm 100% wrong, I just have fun talking about it.
Posted by Be July 8, 2013 4:15 pm | #42 |
sj4iy wrote:
Be wrote:
Sorry, can't. Trust issues.
That's fine, whatever you're comfortable with. It is a tv show, however, and I can't imagine that anyone takes it very seriously. I don't. I don't mind if I'm 100% wrong, I just have fun talking about it.
The writers worked on it for ages to create something new, something inventive for us to have fun. It needs to be solved in scedule when it is time to do it properly. So either it is a surprise or not.
I also doubt that I am right about everything. So my point is that it is possible to have a solution without a massive blue airbag.
Posted by sj4iy July 8, 2013 4:37 pm | #43 |
Be wrote:
sj4iy wrote:
Be wrote:
Sorry, can't. Trust issues.
That's fine, whatever you're comfortable with. It is a tv show, however, and I can't imagine that anyone takes it very seriously. I don't. I don't mind if I'm 100% wrong, I just have fun talking about it.
The writers worked on it for ages to create something new, something inventive for us to have fun. It needs to be solved in scedule when it is time to do it properly. So either it is a surprise or not.
I also doubt that I am right about everything. So my point is that it is possible to have a solution without a massive blue airbag.
Well, none of us are going to solve all of it...that's the point. But the writers DID want us to figure out how Sherlock survived...they've even said so. Otherwise, they would have never given us all of the pieces to solve it. There was never a schedule for figuring it out...just a due date. I think that he fell onto something, and that had absolutely nothing to do with the visual evidence. That had everything to do with me watching it countlless times, picking up little things, even using things to construct the buildings and reading lots of information on anatomy, the physics of falling and magicians' tricks. Only long after that did I finally see the spoilers...and what I saw supported what I thought, almost perfectly. I didn't come up with any of this just recently, I had worked it out long ago. I just use the pictures and videos as evidence, because it's easier that way. People always want evidence. Sure, they could be messing with us...and I'm sure they have at some point. But I don't think they were messing with us about the airbag...because I don't see how he could have gotten down any other way. Is it cheating? A bit. But the point of this thread is that people don't mind that. Does Sherlock cheat? All the time.
If someone else has a better idea, then I am more than happy to listen. I don't judge, I discuss. That's how I am. If you have an idea, you're free to discuss it. If you don't like my idea, you're free to debate it. I'm fine with all of it.
Last edited by sj4iy (July 8, 2013 4:40 pm)
Posted by anjaH_alias July 8, 2013 9:35 pm | #44 |
I think both of you could be right, both fits. I always thought - besides a lot of other stuff - that the truck had a role, too. Can´t we see it on some photographs of yours, behind that airbag? Short after watching TRF the first times I thought Sherlock jumps from the roof, then something on the truck or from the truck stopped him safely, and he rolled down from that onto the pavement. So far so good, I don´t think your theory and Be´s are so far away from each other. It´s just a little thing in the whole process. I was also always a fan of the ball under the armpit - so small, so clever, so tricky and magic, no drugs necessary (maybe also Molly´s idea, maybe he asked her: How can one be found dead?).
But before Setlock I never expected them having another body, but it makes sense (more than a dummy) to me. It makes fun having theories about that, although I think the most important stuff in TRF happens before (to me it´s not so important how he survived the fall - somehow he did -, but when did the whole story start? What´s the clue everybody has missed, the out-of-character behaviour?).
Last edited by anjaH_alias (July 8, 2013 9:36 pm)
Posted by sj4iy July 8, 2013 9:55 pm | #45 |
anjaH_alias wrote:
I think both of you could be right, both fits. I always thought - besides a lot of other stuff - that the truck had a role, too. Can´t we see it on some photographs of yours, behind that airbag? Short after watching TRF the first times I thought Sherlock jumps from the roof, then something on the truck or from the truck stopped him safely, and he rolled down from that onto the pavement. So far so good, I don´t think your theory and Be´s are so far away from each other. It´s just a little thing in the whole process. I was also always a fan of the ball under the armpit - so small, so clever, so tricky and magic, no drugs necessary (maybe also Molly´s idea, maybe he asked her: How can one be found dead?).
But before Setlock I never expected them having another body, but it makes sense (more than a dummy) to me. It makes fun having theories about that, although I think the most important stuff in TRF happens before (to me it´s not so important how he survived the fall - somehow he did -, but when did the whole story start? What´s the clue everybody has missed, the out-of-character behaviour?).
I am wondering the same thing. There are bits and pieces, but not enough to reconstruct the entire puzzle...yet. I think the bad policeman definitely had something to do with the kidnapping...as well as telling Donovan that Sherlock was the culprit (guy in a pink shirt). But I don't know exactly how or why. Same with Mycroft and the assassins. I don't think Sherlock planned it from the beginning, though. And of course, I want to know what Sherlock said to Moriarty to make him kill himself. I don't think it had anything to do with the threats Sherlock made, because Moriarty doesn't care about being tortured or killed...he just wants to win the game. And Sherlock convinces Moriarty that he won't...unless he kills himself.
Posted by lil July 9, 2013 1:36 am | #46 |
Funny Thread .
Derren Brown ~ Trick of the Mind rings a bell .
Why have they consulted an expert on making people think and say exactly what they want them to?
DVD extra's for lol's anyone ?
They must have known theese pics would get out and cause , um something like this , all publicity is good publicity after all. Are they advertising Moriarty style ?
Is this a case of hiding in plain sight , idk but every theory around could fit theese pics , coincidence?.
Mofftiss and co are very touchy touchy about spoilers and this seems like just the kinda evil they would come up with. I remember Royston Vasey!
" We didn't burn him!"
I am sure when TRF was written they already knew exactly what happened and it was checked by many expert people ( not idiots ) .
I don't see them scrambling to come with explanations just as they start filming series three.
But then " Who the hell knows with Sherlock Holmes. "
No one can really know anything until it is aired , and thats the fun and probably the point of it.
I doubt in reality they will spend much time explaining all the minute details discussed on forums and fandoms , the show is only 90 mins after all .
As with all fiction a suspension of reality is sometimes necessary.
( I am surprised ASIB didn't fall into it's own plot holes tbh! )
Misleading people and surprising them with the things only Sherlock see's is kinda a ACD tradition / legend and this reincarnation of Sherlock plays on that a lot ~ so we are all probably being Anderson style idiots here .
" OH Don't be offended almost everyone is."
Last edited by lil (July 9, 2013 2:20 am)
Posted by sj4iy July 9, 2013 1:37 am | #47 |
lil wrote:
Funny Thread .
Derren Brown ~ Trick of the Mind rings a bell .
Why have they consulted an expert on making people think and say exactly what they want them to?
DVD extra's for lol's anyone ?
They must have known theese pics would get out and cause , um something like this , all publicity is good publicity after all. Are they advertising Moriarty style ?
Is this a case of hiding in plain sight , idk but every theory around could fit theese pics , coincidence?.
Mofftiss and co are very touchy touchy about spoilers and this seems like just the kinda evil they would come up with. I remember Royston Vasey!
I am sure when TRF was written they already knew exactly what happened and it was checked by many expert people ( not idiots ) .
I don't see them scrambling to come with explanations just as they start filming series three.
But then " Who the hell knows with Sherlock Holmes. "
No one can really know anything until it is aired , and thats the fun and probably the point of it.
I doubt in reality they will spend much time explaining all the minute details discussed on forums and fandoms , the show is only 90 mins after all .
As with all fiction a suspension of reality is sometimes necessary.
( I am surprised ASIB didn't fall into it's own plot holes tbh! )
Misleading people and surprising them with the things only Sherlock see's is kinda a ACD tradition / legend and this reincarnation of Sherlock plays on that a lot ~ so we are all probably being Anderson style idiots here .
" OH Don't be offended almost everyone is."
When I first saw those pics, I LOL. It was hilarious. My first reaction was "Oh man, are they trolling us now"
Posted by besleybean July 9, 2013 7:26 am | #48 |
This is the part I'm hoping is true!
Posted by Sherlock Holmes July 9, 2013 9:36 am | #49 |
Filming is expensive and takes time. I don't think they're going to film LOADS of stuff just to troll us. That would just be...insane, even for Moffat. I wondered at the time whether the Derren Brown footage might actually be used in one of Derren Brown's programmes in the end, and that they had struck up some kind of deal over it, especially since he and Mark are good friends. Brown is a trickster and loves to con people to see how they react to different things. It could be part of some kind of programme on the media, the internet and how things easily get blown out of proportion etc, using this as just one example of it and all the immediate fall out that happened afterwards, how everyone was talking about etc.
I also like the theory that a lot of this footage will be used in thought or dream sequences from John's point of view. He wants to believe that Sherlock isn't dead, he wants more than anything to believe it's just a trick and that somehow he might survive, and so he comes up with all these crazy outlandish theories to try and explain it to himself, to give himself hope. Maybe I was hypnotised and missed everything. Maybe he landed on this giant blue thing and then people dragged it away. Maybe it was Moriarty. And yeah, he sees a flash of a vision of Moriarty wearing Sherlock's coat and shaking hands with Mycroft (which makes total sense for John to see in a dream sequence btw, because he is SO angry with Mycroft at this point and knows he made a deal with Moriarty).
So, a lot of these scenes that we're seeing that take ages to film and they do again and again and again, will probably only translate to about 2 seconds of footage from each clip as they flitter through John's mind. That's my theory on the random and unexplainable footage.
My theory on how Sherlock did it, is actually still exactly the same as I had a year and a half ago when I first saw it...
He jumped. The Homeless Network people at the bottom held out a fireman's style landing net, which he fell into, then rolled off onto the floor and splashed fake blood on himself. His assistants screwed up the net and tossed it onto the rubbish truck to get rid of the props. This then drove off. They then surrounded him and pretended to be concerned citizens/paramedics etc. He didn't use a rubber ball. There honestly wasn't any need for him to do that. It's just one of those red herrings. John had just seen his best friend commit suicide by throwing himself off a building, then got hit over by a bike and concussed. He was confused, upset, slightly injured, and was in no fit state to be taking Sherlock's pulse effectively. Besides which, he was already expecting the worst, and the woman pushed his hand away. He had hold of Sherlock's wrist for 3-5 seconds max. Even for an exceptional doctor like John, he would need a little longer to find a pulse.
Posted by nicbooful July 9, 2013 9:46 am | #50 |
The dream theory is very interesting and a good way to put us off the actual truth. It would be the only reason I can think of seeing Moriarty in Sherlock's coat . It's John's mind confusing things x
Posted by lil July 9, 2013 12:02 pm | #51 |
The dream idea is interesting I like it .John meets Sherlock alive ,doesn't let him explain,goes home angry and dreams up explanations.
Maybe Sherlock doesn't explain how he survived to the media / people in the show , and the footage is used in the show as mock ups of how the media think he survived.
Mirroring what happened for real in the show. More funny headlines & news blips kinda thing.
I can see the expense being easily justified as dvd extra's and behind the scenes footage.In fact I think the headcam shots & Sh screaming wld make a fantastic trailer.
Don't all DVDs have extended and exta's now .
As for the airbag/net landing , ok, but they did actually show us a Sherlock landing ,from height on the pavement.
As for the Moriarty/Mycroft pic .What a good idea Mycroft , hide Moriarty's body and steal his phone etc and replace him with an undercover agent lookalike. Would be easy they have been planning this for a while afterall.
no one really meets him face to face , he doesn't get his hands dirty etc so even his clients don't know him for sure.
How much easier to take down his network then , and have an excellently placed Inside man in the criminal underworld!
What a wasted opportunity for the intelligence agency's if they didn't do that.
Last edited by lil (July 9, 2013 12:48 pm)
Posted by sj4iy July 9, 2013 12:46 pm | #52 |
Definitely some interesting theories about a dream sequence...will have to think about that one.
Posted by holmes23 July 9, 2013 5:20 pm | #53 |
If the so called spoilers about the fall are true, I would be disappointed. The given solution is a very plausible one but there isn't much element of surprise in it. I expect something extra ordinary from Moffiss. If the events that preceeding the fall is what matters most, then, I imagine, I won't complain about this silly solution of the fall.
Posted by sj4iy July 9, 2013 5:41 pm | #54 |
holmes23 wrote:
If the so called spoilers about the fall are true, I would be disappointed. The given solution is a very plausible one but there isn't much element of surprise in it. I expect something extra ordinary from Moffiss. If the events that preceeding the fall is what matters most, then, I imagine, I won't complain about this silly solution of the fall.
I don't think it's silly. But you're right, we don't know a lot of the details of what happened in the entire episode, which, to me, is the real mystery. For me, there are two things bugging me the most: What is Mycroft's role in all of this, and what is the clue behind what Sherlock says to make Moriarty kill himself? Those are what I can't even begin to figure out...the fall itself had lots of clues, but those don't. At least, not obvious ones.
Posted by holmes23 July 9, 2013 6:29 pm | #55 |
Yep, you are right. The answer to those mysteries would be the big part.
I use the word silly in the sense that this solution is something that most of the viewers have somewhat worked out, at least some of the elements. Apologise for my bad English.
IMO, this solution is kinda that of how SH got out of the fall in The Final Problem in canon, as both are unsatisfactory,. In FINA it is unbelievable, and in here it's unsurprising.
Posted by KeepersPrice July 10, 2013 12:36 am | #56 |
Wow...got into this thread last night. It's exciting to see all the theories being debated again now that Series 3 will soon become reality. It feels like we're finally getting closer and it won't be long until we really know the answers. I don't have any theories of my own - other than it was a great magic trick. I'll just let it play out when the show airs. But I can't even imagine the excitement I'll be feeling when I finally get to see it. Pounding heart and white knuckles for sure! Actually I think this thread triggered a 'Sherlock' dream last night. I dreamed John entered some sort of remote house in the woods. It was night and there was a fire in the fireplace and there was a cat curled up sleeping on a nearby chair. John went over to pat it and when he looked up again Sherlock was standing there. In my dream a huge grin spread over John's face when he saw him. I remember feeling a bit disappointed there wasn't 'something more' (punch/hug/swearing) but I think the whole thing was symbolic of me just being happy that " we're getting there"!!!! We've been patient for so long.....
Posted by sj4iy July 10, 2013 12:46 am | #57 |
KeepersPrice wrote:
Wow...got into this thread last night. It's exciting to see all the theories being debated again now that Series 3 will soon become reality. It feels like we're finally getting closer and it won't be long until we really know the answers. I don't have any theories of my own - other than it was a great magic trick. I'll just let it play out when the show airs. But I can't even imagine the excitement I'll be feeling when I finally get to see it. Pounding heart and white knuckles for sure! Actually I think this thread triggered a 'Sherlock' dream last night. I dreamed John entered some sort of remote house in the woods. It was night and there was a fire in the fireplace and there was a cat curled up sleeping on a nearby chair. John went over to pat it and when he looked up again Sherlock was standing there. In my dream a huge grin spread over John's face when he saw him. I remember feeling a bit disappointed there wasn't 'something more' (punch/hug/swearing) but I think the whole thing was symbolic of me just being happy that " we're getting there"!!!! We've been patient for so long.....
Now I'm glad I started this thread :D I will be just as excited...probably moreso to see if I'm actually anywhere near correct, lol. It's sort of like finding out what the baby is going to be before it's born...there's just as much excitement finding out as when they are actually born (yeah, I found out both times with mine...at least I'm consistant lol). It's still a surprise, because you never really know ;)
Posted by besleybean July 10, 2013 7:34 am | #58 |
Moving swiftly on from the baby theme and back on topic(I know, so umlike me!).
I just know I was so wrong with any of my predictions about series 2 and I had seen 4 fairly major spoilers. Oh well I kind of got one thing right.
This time I've seen a bit of the filming and I think all the spoilers.
So I do feel I know quote a lot. But yes, we will have to wait and see.
Posted by Be July 10, 2013 8:51 am | #59 |
Right now I wouldn't rule out that they have a plan A and a plan B prepared just in case that somebody wants to show off and spoils aka they put the clues together differently and come up with a second explanation already available.
A red herring can be made into a clue and vice versa.
Doyle did that.
You are a magician and the rabbit vanishes. You let the audience guess where it is. If somebody guesses it you don't give up. You just reveal a second rabbit previously hidden somewhere else to prove the first guess wrong.
Posted by anjaH_alias July 10, 2013 12:59 pm | #60 |
sj4iy wrote:
For me, there are two things bugging me the most: ....and what is the clue behind what Sherlock says to make Moriarty kill himself?
I think there is no real clue, it´s more a kind of "psychological warleading" . I have just written it once here in 2012 and copied it now only. I think we should not forget that Moriarty is somehow on the edge, he is insane. My own quote now:
Steven Moffat and Mark Gatiss once asked themselves, of what kind somebody could be who frightens us to death nowadays. Their conclusion was - a suicide bomber. Somebody who is so much obsessed with an idea that he is even willing to kill himself. Moriarty is obsessed with Sherlock, to burn him and to kill him. For this he even resists the methods of Mycroft´s interrogations. On the rooftop finally he seems to have solved the final problem: Because there is no recall code Sherlock is willing to jump into his own death to save his friends.
But then Moriarty fluffs: He accidentally reveals that there is a possibility to recall everything.Sherlock realizes that, convinced to get the code out of him, to maybe deduce it. He is not Mycroft and not the King´s horses. He is not even an angel, just on the side of them. He can convince Moriarty that they are still alike, and Moriarty, insane as he is, believes this: If one is able to get anything out of him, this would be Sherlock then (at the point when he realizes that, directly at the end of the sentence "I am not one of them", there is a kind of thunder and lightening camera and sound effect, the moment of Moriarty´s literal enlightment, if you want so). To bring his plan to a successful end he must necessarily kill himself. If Sherlock actually had got the code out of him in the end is left open, but more important is, that he himself was convinced about that, too - look at his eyes, it´s nearly like hypnosis. So he was absolutely able to be deeply persuasive to Moriarty.