BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 / Ein Skandal in Belgravia, German TV, May 17th, 2012

**Posted by tobeornot221b** May 18, 2012 5:19 pm

I've been going over my yesterday's Skandal notes.
Some things I find interesting to share:

Just for the record: Sherlock adresses everyone with "Sie" instead of "du" – except for Mycroft (wonder why…). Only poor John seems to have no-one in the whole wide world he is so familiar with that he would use the less formal "du".
Only once the dubbing makes a mistake in this regard. Instead of saying: "Hamish. John Hamish Watson. Falls Sie nach einem Babynamen suchen…", John utters: "…falls ihr nach einem Babynamen sucht!" What an unforgivable confidentiality!

The dubbing adds a lot of cursing that isn't in the original version.
Sherlock's shout at the door bell: "Shut up!" becomes "Ruhe, verdammt!"
"I want you to open the safe" becomes "Ich will, dass Sie diesen fucking Safe öffnen!"
Mycroft's "Shut up, Mrs. Hudson" becomes an (unappropriate!) "Halten Sie die Klappe, Mrs. Hudson" (which is much ruder than "Ruhe!" or "Halten Sie den Mund!")

The conversation between Irene and John ends with "I don't think so, do you?"
German dubbing solution: "Ist, glaub ich, nicht nötig, oder?" ("It's not necessary, I believe, is it?")

Some random phrases:
"Let's have dinner" = "Geh'n wir essen"
"Laterz" = "Also dann"
"Brainy ist the new sexy" = "Grips finde ich einfach sexy"
"Vatican cameos" = "vatikanische Kameen"
"The woman woman" = "Die Frau-Frau"
"transparent" = "offenkundig"
"obvious" = "offenkundig" (hardly any German would use "offenkundig" instead of "offensichtlich" or "logisch!" or "klar")
There are more sentences you wouldn't say like "Ich find's ansprechend" – "Du findest doch alles ansprechend!" ("It works on me …Everything works on you!"). I'd say: "Ich finde das toll/sexy – du findest doch alles toll/sexy!")

All in all I agree with the German script. No offence, ARD!

(I'll stop now boring you with unimportant details. Promise.)

**Posted by Irene Adler** May 18, 2012 5:48 pm

tobeornot221b wrote:
Only poor John seems to have no-one in the whole wide world he is so familiar with that he would use the less formal "du".

Not even Jeanette? Being his girlfriend, one would assume he would adress to her with "du" and not "Sie".
By the way, any cuts on the German version? I know PBS cut some scenes, I don't know if that has happened in your case.

By the way, mor, nice place Asturias, one of my favourites in this country, though it's a bit far from me. I hope you enjoyed it, it's beautiful and people there are usually very nice.

Ah, and I know a little bit of German too, but mostly through Die Zauberflöte and Schubert's lieder

Last edited by Irene_Adler (May 18, 2012 5:49 pm)

**Posted by tobeornot221b** May 18, 2012 5:54 pm

Of course you're right, Irene. How could I forget about lovely Jeanette...! But she was gone so quickly - and now John really has no-one anymore...

No, no cuts were made, it wasn't necessary as DAS ERSTE is without commercials after 8 p.m.

**Posted by m0r1arty** May 18, 2012 6:03 pm

Those weren't boring details I enjoyed that very much tobeornot!

Why is there swearing added when there was none in the original?

Looses some charm there.

-m0r

**Posted by jenosborn** May 18, 2012 7:11 pm

I agree, kind of puzzling with the swearing. Thanks very much tobe, I do find the differences in the details fascinating,
from the bit of German I know. I had not heard of 'Grips' before, for example… And it's great to have you point out the colloquialisms.

and m0r, I am right there with you on those German Beatles songs.

All this talk of travel, ah, dreaming on now...

**Posted by Davina** May 18, 2012 8:41 pm

I would have thought offensichtlich too. What about durchschauen? Would that sound right? Laterz? Spaeterz? Sounds good to me! Lol. I have to say that I STILL just do NOT get why they have not gone to du u.s.w. it's frankly CRAZY! The swearing is not only a deviation from the series it is a serious deviation from the canon! Moftiss would never do this, even after the watershed. It is just not in character. Also being SO rude to Mrs. Hudson England would fall! Although 'shut up' is a bit rude, would 'Schtum' work here? When they get people to dub, surely the dubbing artists must be able to say when something just doesn't sound right...maybe not?!

If they don't get Sherlock and John onto more familiar terms how will The Reichenbach Fall work?

**Posted by tobeornot221b** May 18, 2012 9:27 pm

Wow, Davina - you've got a good feeling for the German language! Laterz = späterz sounds nice but doesn't really hit the spot of this certain London accent thing, I presume. Some things can't be transferred into German - like the "bloody stupid power complex" - I don't think someone got this clue with the Battersea Power Complex here!
As for the swearing: The additional "fucking" safe thing serves imo the clarification that an American is involved. They could have given Neilson a dubber with an American accent but they didn't. So - we all know that Americans constantly use the f word -this way Neilson's nationality is being made obvious...
"Shut up" in a more polite way would be "Seien Sie still" /not "stumm" (dumb) - that would have been the appropriate translation in the Mycroft/Mrs Hudson scene. Mycroft is no bully after all - especially not towards old ladies!

As for Reichenbach: I have absolutely no idea how the German dubbing will leave any emotional wrecks behind...

Last edited by tobeornot221b (May 18, 2012 9:28 pm)

**Posted by Irene Adler** May 18, 2012 9:46 pm

tobeornot221b wrote:
Of course you're right, Irene. How could I forget about lovely Jeanette...! But she was gone so quickly - and now John really has no-one anymore...

No, no cuts were made, it wasn't necessary as DAS ERSTE is without commercials after 8 p.m.

Oooh... poor German John... I hope he gets someone to say "du" soon! Maybe he will start doing that with Mycroft in Reichenbach (I think he loses finally any respect he could have had for me)
And I'm glad to read you had no cuts. Here in Spain there where no cuts either, but I know there were a lot of commercials, so an episode would last about two hours or so.

**Posted by Sammy** May 19, 2012 1:34 am

Hm, okay, I'm also gonna put my two cents in if you don't mind...
I think all in all it was quite a good dubbing. Of course, dubbing ITSELF should be a crime, you know, but all things considered it was one of the better ones...
Didn't really have a problem with any translations expect maybe for the "fucking safe" - 'cause that's how Americans talk or what? haha - and the weird "es stinkt" (wtf?!) by Mrs. Hudson.
Oh, and the "offenkundig" of course. But he did that since the first episode. I think they kinda want it to be his "elementary".
But what I will NEVER stop complaining about is the freaking SIE! How? Just... how? Why in the world would somebody address his best friend as "Sie"?
Surely, no matter how polite, one would stop using the formal form if he would bloody move in with the other person. Can they really be that stupid at the ARD?
But, really, that's the thing they do. I don't know if they have a weird picture of the British or if they just don't know better... but surely then one would rather use "Du", 'cause who is that formal nowadays anyway?
I already complained about that in Doctor who. To the Whovians: Yes, the Doctor and Rose did INDEED address each other with "Sie".
Ridiculous, I know.
But not as much as with John and Sherlock. Of course the "Sie" is something that you connect with the Victorian Holmes and Watson, but the whole point is that it's transferred into the present time and no one addresses his friends formally nowadays.

Btw. when Rose said "I love you" in Doomsday, she changed to "Du". Let's hope they have the presence of mind to do so with Reichenbach, too.
(I already hoped for it to happen in the second season because of the time that has passed or something... but I didn't really expect it.)

Ugh - sorry for the long rant!

Edit: Just wanted to add - if I recall it correctly, John used "Sie" for Sarah aswell!

Last edited by Sammy (May 19, 2012 1:35 am)

**Posted by Davina** May 19, 2012 6:04 am

If the Germans think that's how the Americans talk they should really walk down our local high street! That would be a revelation I am sure. I have to say the word is also used routinely by the youth of all classes. Perhaps the perception is that British people don't swear much. If so they clearly haven't listened to many of Benedict's interviews and he's a public schoolboy! Lol

**Posted by tobeornot221b** May 19, 2012 11:40 am

Sammy wrote:
Btw. when Rose said "I love you" in Doomsday, she changed to "Du". Let's hope they have the presence of mind to do so with Reichenbach, too.

Unless "Nobody could fake being such an annoying dick all the time!" is considered to count as "I love you" (could it be clearer at all?) they won't change anything, I guess!

**Posted by Sammy** May 19, 2012 8:15 pm

Yeah.. but I think they might do that at the point where Sherlock is like "Keep your eyes fixed on me"?
I don't know. It would be awkward anyway, but they just NEED to change it at some point.
Or I could imagine John just going "Du" at Sherlock's grave...

Haha and btw. yes, that is totally an "I love you"

**Posted by Ivy** August 22, 2012 8:44 am

Can any of you remember how hey translated:

Mycroft: I'll be mother
Sherlock: And there's a whole childhood in a nutshell

I saw it once in German (17th May). I borrowed my DVDs a friend of mine; so I can't rewatch the scene in German at the moment.

I had to google "I'll be mother", because I had no idea what he wanted to say. Funny phrase.

**Posted by SusiGo** August 22, 2012 9:36 am

"Ich bemuttere euch mal."
"Und schon sehe ich die Kindheit wiederauferstehen."

Not really brilliant, I'd say. But it's always difficult to synchronise the words with the lip movements.

And, Sammy, the change to "du" is more than overdue. They missed the opportunity to change it in the graveyard scene.

**Posted by Ivy** August 22, 2012 9:49 am

SusiGo wrote:
"Ich bemuttere euch mal."
"Und schon sehe ich die Kindheit wiederauferstehen."

Not really brilliant, I'd say. But it's always difficult to synchronise the words with the lip movements.

And, Sammy, the change to "du" is more than overdue. They missed the opportunity to change it in the graveyard scene.

Oh, not good. I know why I prefer the original version.

Yes lip movement is a problem, I understand that dubbing is difficult.
I think a suitable translation would be "ich bin dann mal so frei" or something like that, but Sherlocks reaction would't have worked then.

**Posted by SusiGo** August 22, 2012 10:16 am

I think the first sentence isn't so bad because it contains the mother association. In the second I'd go for something like "Genau wie früher", "Wie in alten Zeiten" or "Das hast du schon als Kind getan".

**Posted by The Doctor** August 22, 2012 10:56 am

wow, indeed, that's quite a different meaning/connotation in those translations!

**Posted by SusiGo** August 22, 2012 11:04 am

That's true but sometimes you have to depart from the exact wording in order to get nearer to the actual meaning. I do this for a living (translating books, that is) and it's sometimes really hard to find the middle course between staying true to the author and conveying to your Germans readers his/her individual style and meaning as well as creating the same effect (e.g. amusement). But in dubbing films it's even more difficult because you are restricted by time AND the actors' lip movements and all sorts of visual factors.

**Posted by La Jolie** September 5, 2014 8:08 am

A very weird thing has just happened to me at work.

I was chatting with my colleague from next door at the office, and she was complaining about people wasting everyone's time in meetings with stupid comments and stupid questions and stupid ideas, and we were being a bit mean, fantasizing about how great it would be if we could kick people out of meetings simply on the grounds of their too low IQ, and she - of course in jest - suggested telling them "Ihre Anwesenheit steigert die Dummheit hier im Raum ins Unerträgliche!"and I baulked, stared, went beet red and said nothing at all, I felt so caught.

"Your presence raises the stupidity in this room to intolerable levels" sounds SO much like a quote, I really need one of you ladies from the German contingent who have their DVD handy to check the German audio track of the "CIA men in 221b" scene in ASIB and let me know whether I really have been working wall-to-wall with a fellow closet Sherlock fan for years without knowing it! Please?

**Posted by eurydike** September 5, 2014 11:46 am

La Jolie wrote:
A very weird thing has just happened to me at work.

I was chatting with my colleague from next door at the office, and she was complaining about people wasting everyone's time in meetings with stupid comments and stupid questions and stupid ideas, and we were being a bit mean, fantasizing about how great it would be if we could kick people out of meetings simply on the grounds of their too low IQ, and she - of course in jest - suggested telling them "Ihre Anwesenheit steigert die Dummheit hier im Raum ins Unerträgliche!"and I baulked, stared, went beet red and said nothing at all, I felt so caught.

"Your presence raises the stupidity in this room to intolerable levels" sounds SO much like a quote, I really need one of you ladies from the German contingent who have their DVD handy to check the German audio track of the "CIA men in 221b" scene in ASIB and let me know whether I really have been working wall-to-wall with a fellow closet Sherlock fan for years without knowing it! Please?

Hmmm, the quote you're looking for would be Sherlock's: "Don't talk, Anderson. You lower the IQ of the entire street every time you open your mouth." No idea if there's any other similar one, but this is the only one I can remember right now.
Seems as if your colleague isn't only a fellow Sherlocker but also a creative one, altering the quote like that.

Why didn't you just ask her?