BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 / Which pill was the poisonous one??

**Posted by Sherlock Holmes** February 8, 2012 12:40 pm

Which pill would you have taken - the one in front of you, or the one the cabbie had???

Sherlock picked out the one the cabbie had - why?

**Posted by kazza474** February 9, 2012 4:35 am

Sherlock was pushing things to the limit. He does like to play dangerously. So I don't think we will ever know. It was a scene to show his 'dangerous play' side to viewers.
The obvious choice by the 'average thinking person' would be the cabbie's after all the Cabbie was willing to take it.
But then would you take your own, because the Cabbie would think you are an average thinker so let's turn the tables on him.
But then would you think that the Cabbie thinks that also, so take your own after all.
But then the Cabbie might work out that you would think that, so maybe I better take his after all.

Myself?
I would have sneezed uncontrollably and hoped that some War veteran would wander past with his trusty weapon at hand!

**Posted by Sherlock Holmes** February 9, 2012 8:33 am

kazza474 wrote:
The obvious choice by the 'average thinking person' would be the cabbie's after all the Cabbie was willing to take it.
But then would you take your own, because the Cabbie would think you are an average thinker so let's turn the tables on him.
But then would you think that the Cabbie thinks that also, so take your own after all.
But then the Cabbie might work out that you would think that, so maybe I better take his after all.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking - it's pretty messed up...hurts my head trying to think about it - like he thinks that I think that he thinks he's given me the poisonous one...lol...that's what he meant when he was talking about double and triple bluffs...

**Posted by drummerchickSH** February 9, 2012 9:34 am

I think the one sherlock had was the right one because the cabbie would have said or gloated as he died that it was the wrong one ... Just to annoy sherlock !

**Posted by Davina** February 13, 2012 12:03 pm

The cabbie knew that not telling Sherlock whether he had chosen the right one would be a way of exacting revenge upon him. As Sherlock says it is a game of chance. The cabbie believes it is because he is a 'genius' and that chance has nothing to do with it. He is conceited enough to think that it is like a game of chess whilst, as Sherlock keeps telling him, it is pure chance. Though the cabbie pushing one jar towards Sherlock does bring a little more 'skill' into it.

Luckily John was there!

**Posted by Sherlock Holmes** February 16, 2012 4:18 pm

I can see why he said it was like chess, but it is essentially still chance!

**Posted by arkemiffo** February 21, 2012 5:24 pm

Personally I believe there is no way to determine which one was which by the action of the cabbie as we saw it.
There is simply no way for us to know if he was bluffing / double bluffing / triple bluffing at any given game played.

The game was played (imo) by letting the victim take part of body language, subtexts of what was said and so on, so the cabbie controlled which one was taken. There is no such notion that everyone will without a doubt take the same pill given the same settings. Some will think he was bluffing, some will think he was double bluffing and so on. I took the "I know how people think" comment as the cabbie could control the victims choices. Not that he knew what pill they would have taken would he been absolutely still (after the first "move"), and quiet.

**Posted by kazza474** February 22, 2012 2:23 am

In the commentary for this one, Moffat (who wrote this) tells us how he knows which pill is which.
" He absolutely knows, like the shell game, he knows which one he put in which pocket. It's not like he's marked them, he has just memorised them".

**Posted by arkemiffo** February 22, 2012 12:20 pm

Yes, absolutely. The *CABBIE* knows.
WE on the other hand is who I'm reffering to here. We have no way of knowing this.
In the shell game it is stated where the marker is, and we can follow it, but in this game we do not have such a marker, so its a guessing game. With 2 pills we always have 50/50 to get the right one.

**Posted by Sherlock Holmes** February 22, 2012 3:10 pm

Yeah, like Sherlock said, it's not chess, it's chance. Although it does seem pretty lucky that he managed to get it right 4 times in a row (and kill 4 people). And how does Sherlock know which pill is which? D'you think he would have taken it if John hadn't have shot the cabbie?

**Posted by arkemiffo** February 22, 2012 6:03 pm

Well, as I said, the Cabbie knows which pill is which. Otherwise he might as well play russian roulette, and thats not very fun, or smart is it?
The clever part is that he gets people to take the wrong pill (its a game of pure chance from the victims point of view), by influincing their choices.
The premise is just like the shell game (as stated in another thread), but without the marker being know to the victim, only the cabbie. The actual game is then for the cabbie to make sure the victim take the poison, and not the sugarpill.

Personally I dont think Sherlock would have taken it. Even though he likes to play it close to the edge, that would have been a bit too close. He also dont like pure chance.

**Posted by Sherlock Holmes** February 22, 2012 7:40 pm

Yeah, if John hadn't have interupted he might have just pulled it away at the last minute and made a smart remark...or he might have held it in his mouth and pretended to swallow it...

**Posted by Wholocked** March 13, 2012 6:29 am

Reminds me of this scene from The Princess Bride:
Okay so the video tags don't seem to be playing nicely.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_eZmEiyTo0

Last edited by sioneld (March 13, 2012 6:30 am)

**Posted by Sherlock Holmes** March 13, 2012 9:41 am

Wow, I totally forgot about that movie - it was one of my favourites when I was a kid!

**Posted by sherlocked** March 13, 2012 12:21 pm

The crazy thing about that scene: When John shot the cabbie, he didn't know, that the cabbie was of no danger to Sherlock, since he used only a toy pistol, and Sherlock knew it. The only danger for Sherlock was his own personality. I think, he was sorely tempted to take the pill, but snapped out of it, when the shot came. After all, he could have taken the pill even after the cabbie was dead, just to find out, if he had chosen the right pill, but the moment was over and some sort of sanity kicked in again, when he threw the pill away. If John had known all this, he might have shot the pill out of Sherlock's hand, lol! But we don't know, if he's THAT good with his gun!

**Posted by theCuriousOne** March 13, 2012 2:55 pm

in my opinion, besides John snaps Sherlock sanity, he also stop the cabbie blabbering who-is-the-smart-here and are-you-sure-about-your-choice (which of course affect Sherlock's ego).

**Posted by Sherlock Holmes** March 13, 2012 3:17 pm

sherlocked wrote:
If John had known all this, he might have shot the pill out of Sherlock's hand, lol! But we don't know, if he's THAT good with his gun!

That would be totally awesome!

**Posted by sherlocked** March 13, 2012 3:49 pm

ThecuriousOne, you are right. In a way the cabbie WAS dangerous, even without a pistol. He was playing mind games with Sherlock by challenging a weak spot brilliantly. It might have almost worked.

Sherlock, that would have been a better shot than Wilhelm Tell,who shot the apple from the head of his son, lol! But I would not put it past John to pull it off, lol!

**Posted by 42_and_221B** March 20, 2012 4:15 am

Someone mentioned the Princess Bride earlier, which I thought was funny since that was exactly what I thought of the first time I saw the episode.
And it also is the basis of my suspicion that both the pills were "poisonous". I know that might sound a bit silly, because if they were both poisoned, then how would the cabbie survive? But perhaps the "poison" was a medication of sorts that the cabbie had to take because of his medical condition, but that would be fatal for any "normal" person to take.
That's just one theory anyways, though I think that something along those lines would make alot of sense -- I mean, seriously, how could the cabbie win 4 out of 4 times without having some sort of advantage (beside his "genius" intellect)?

Anyways, I don't think we'll ever really know which pill was which. To me, the point of the scene seemed to be to show Sherlock's unstable side (weeeellll, I say side... not sure I shouldn't have said whole ) and the fact that he really needs someone around to keep that part of him in check, to make sure he doesn't do stupid and dangerous things like downing a possibly fatal pill.

Last edited by 42_and_221B (March 20, 2012 4:16 am)

**Posted by Sherlock Holmes** March 20, 2012 4:57 am

It's a good job he has John then!