BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 / Benedict to play Dominic Cummings in Brexit drama

**Posted by Liberty** January 10, 2019 9:55 am

Social media is a nightmare! I only dip in every now and then, and there is so much misinformation spreading, especially considering that most of my contacts on Facebook are educated, professional people. But it's so easy to be manipulated (I admit to having bought something that appeared to be targetted at me on social media - something "eco". So I'm not claiming any superiority over other people who have fallen for these things), and also be influenced by "recommendations" from "friends" whose opinion you respect.

**Posted by nakahara** January 10, 2019 12:47 pm

Liberty wrote:
I wouldn't say it was propoganda. I didn't feel it went very deeply into the reasons for leaving or remaining, but was more about Leave campaign itself. And I think we accept that it was a dodgy campaign.

I am just asking because as a person living outside UK I just know that you had a referendum that ended with the verdict of "Leave", I know some major players on both sides (Cameron, Johnson, Farage etc.), but the actual details of the campaign are not known to me, aside from the fact that it is generally held for "dodgy".

This movie would be perfect insight into that process... nevertheless, a few days ago I read some interview with Craig Oliver in which he admitted that the scene of his meeting with Dominic Cummings in this movie is fictional. You wrote that "the parliamentary hearing scene" is imaginary too. Yitzock posted the link to the article that cites innacurracies in the movie....

I mean, as an outsider, how I am to know what is fiction and what is reality, if I should watch the movie? Is this a reliable picture of reality? Or it is merely some imagination of the authors loosely based on the actual campaign?

**Posted by nakahara** January 10, 2019 1:01 pm

SusiGo wrote:
I think there is a strong tendency of lying and overplaying today, especially in social media. Some days ago a right-wing German politician was attacked from behind in the street and suffered bad head injuries. Only hours later his party posted that it had been terrorists from left who had used a squared timber to beat him and who had kicked his head after he fell down. Turns out that no one knows so far who they were, no weapon was used, there have been no kicks to the head. But once published, these things stay in people's mind.

Well, the post by the party probably took its fact from the media which reported kicks to the head in their first announcements about the incident (Die Welt, for example).

The wound to the head of Frank Magnitz looks really nasty on photographs, it was most likely caused by some weapon? He didn´t inflict it on himself when falling or did he?

Also, there allegedly were witnesses to the incident. Some construction worker or two of them... what did they see? Didn´t they inform the police about the thugs beating Magnitz with a cudgel or a wooden bar?

Count to this the fact that merely two days ago the office of the same political party was attacked with a bomb....

All in all,it´s just normal balance of probabilities.... people believe the version which appears the most likely based on the facts that are on hand in this stage of investigation.

Last edited by nakahara (January 10, 2019 1:02 pm)

**Posted by besleybean** January 10, 2019 4:16 pm

Yeah but as ever, the truth remains...regardless of what people 'believe'.

**Posted by Liberty** January 10, 2019 5:34 pm

Nakahara, I wouldn't watch it as a documentary - it's a film with a story, a dramatisation of real events. To be fair, it's stated in the film that the parliamentary hearing is imaginary (as it's taking place in 2020!). However, I think the most outrageous things in it are true! (The bus, etc.).

**Posted by besleybean** January 10, 2019 5:37 pm

I would watch a documentary on Brexit, but obviously not to see Benedict!

**Posted by ewige** January 10, 2019 6:02 pm

Liberty wrote:
Nakahara, I wouldn't watch it as a documentary - it's a film with a story, a dramatisation of real events. To be fair, it's stated in the film that the parliamentary hearing is imaginary (as it's taking place in 2020!). However, I think the most outrageous things in it are true! (The bus, etc.).

I second that.
I've been following the news coverage since my already paid-for trip depends on the outcome. The dramatisation in the movie is quite obvious, like with some characters' exaggeration, but facts remain facts, like misleading people with the NHS logo.

**Posted by nakahara** January 10, 2019 9:23 pm

Thank you. It seems the movie is more or less accurate then.
The stills from the movie look very interesting too, so I would probably watch it regardless. And I am very curious about Benedict´s portrayal of DC.

**Posted by nakahara** January 10, 2019 9:29 pm

besleybean wrote:
Yeah but as ever, the truth remains...regardless of what people 'believe'.

Of course, but until the truth is revealed through the process of a proper investigation, the police works with hypotheses about the criminal deed. If some of these are reported to the media, yes, it could happen that some facts (that prove untrue later) will stick in the mind of the public.... still, that´s a risk one must count with.

To be silent about the matter alltogether until the investigation is finished (which could take months, years even) is not very feasible....

Therefore, I would not solely blame social media for this, tbh.

Last edited by nakahara (January 10, 2019 9:38 pm)

**Posted by SusiGo** January 20, 2019 11:37 am

Here are links to two deleted scenes that are worth watching:

https://twitter.com/SmilingBenedict/status/1086828237097861121
https://twitter.com/SmilingBenedict/status/1086909397110902784

Last edited by SusiGo (January 20, 2019 11:37 am)

**Posted by besleybean** January 20, 2019 4:18 pm

Thank you and good, aren't they?

**Posted by Yitzock** January 25, 2019 2:48 pm

Those are deleted scenes? I watched this film last night and both of those scenes were in it. Hmm...

Ironically, they were actually a part of the film that I didn't think really worked. I get that he's screaming on the inside because he's worried about the health of the baby, but because the doctor's voice goes away, we don't know exactly what's wrong, and then we're not given a very clear explanation of why the baby is OK after all. But that was my biggest quibble.

Otherwise, I thought it was interesting. Although I have to be honest that I had to Google what UKIP was, since I'm not from the UK and had never heard of it. I think I probably would have understood the film a bit better if I had a better grasp of British and European politics and how the various levels of British government work. But I think I got most of it.

Last edited by Yitzock (January 25, 2019 2:48 pm)

**Posted by besleybean** January 25, 2019 5:10 pm

I believe they were deleted from the British version...is that right, guys?

**Posted by Liberty** January 25, 2019 6:49 pm

I don't remember seeing them, although my attention isn't always very good, so I was wondering if I'd missed them! But yes, maybe deleted from the British one, then.

**Posted by besleybean** January 25, 2019 6:52 pm

I don't remember them, either!

**Posted by Yitzock** January 25, 2019 9:55 pm

That's funny that it would be the UK version that has scenes omitted. If it happened at all, I would have thought it was more likely to be the other way around, with editing to a North American version. Maybe it was due to time constraints. HBO is pretty loose with start times for broadcasts, and when I watched it, it was on demand.

**Posted by besleybean** January 26, 2019 6:57 am

Yeah, I know...
Annoys me when it was Brit made show about UK politics...
But there you go!
Incidentally, I do have the DVD...
If I could bother myself to watch it, possibly I would see a difference?

**Posted by SusiGo** January 27, 2019 5:28 pm

This is really interesting because I felt that Craig Oliver is given more human aspects than Cummings. Of course you do not have to force them upon the story but cutting them while giving Oliver the shock at Jo Cox's death and his brilliant outbreak in the discussion panel - and I think there was another scene after the result came out - was slightly unbalanced. Sure, they are very different characters but the placing of the omitted scenes is quite interesting. If I am correct, they follow immediately upon moments where Cummings is called an arsehole, cold-hearted, etc. Which in the UK version is not counterbalanced because these scenes are not there.

**Posted by Yitzock** January 28, 2019 9:21 pm

Yeah, good point. That is interesting.
I get their importance, but I don't think they were well-executed. I don't know if I would have missed them if they weren't there, but they do provide balance to the characters.

Last edited by Yitzock (January 28, 2019 9:22 pm)

**Posted by nakahara** July 24, 2019 12:17 pm

Now, that´s some unexpected development!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/24/dominic-cummings-of-vote-leave-to-be-named-key-johnson-adviser

Material for a new movie, so it seems....