BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 / The Shape of Water

**Posted by Yitzock** January 12, 2018 3:05 pm

I know we often talk about films we've seen in cinemas in the Recently-watched Movies thread, but I felt like this film deserves a topic of its own if any of you also want to talk about it.

I had been interested in seeing this film since it came out and I finally got to see it this past weekend and there were a lot of things I liked it, from the fact that a lot of effects for the amphibian man weren't CGI (a look at behind the scenes stuff shows the detail that went into the makeup), the positive portrayal of female sexuality, the relationship of the story with the politics of the time the film is set in (which was also the case in Pan's Labyrinth, thought in a different way), and the two main female characters in general. I wish there were more female characters in films that were like Sally Hawkins and Octavia Spencer's characters in The Shape of Water. I hope one day there will be.

Speaking of the performances, I thought Sally Hawkins was just wonderful in this film. Last year I saw her in another film, Maudie, and thought she was great, so I was looking forward to seeing her in The Shape of Water. The film confirmed her skill in my mind, and I want to check out more of her roles now.

Last edited by Yitzock (January 12, 2018 3:05 pm)

**Posted by Russell** January 21, 2018 1:01 am

Stopped in again to see what was new in the forum, and saw this thread (with no replies???) I loved this movie!

I was lucky to have even caught it - I kept hearing about it before release, then the holidays happened, and it wasn't widely distributed I think, so by the time I thought to check and realized it would be gone soon, my mom and I had to go two towns over to catch it, since we both loved del Toro's other films.
Same kind of dark/strange beauitful visuals, same kind of perfect 'period' touch, everything was well shot. I must admit it was quite more explicit than I expected, but that worked with showing everyone's desires and a desire for connection. And perhaps part of it was simply thoughtful surprise since like you said, the movie was quite frank and open about it!

Plus, like you said, the main characters being these two strong women who didn't quite fit in with everyone else, and Sally's character being the one to also connect with the closeted gay man and the creature, I loved how they portrayed all that, tied in to the time period and politics. Yes, the effects and Sally were amazing!

Am I the only one who was fondly recalled of 'Splash' afterwards?
Although the only part that threw me as a bit odd (well, odder) was Sally's 'silent film' song number. It just seemed to stick out a bit, do you think? And wondering what happened to her poor friend afterwards.
Thanks for sharing!

**Posted by Yitzock** January 21, 2018 2:53 pm

Nice to know I wasn't the only one who saw and liked the film around here.

It wasn't in very wide release, though it was around for a while. I myself had to go downtown with my mum to see it because it wasn't in our local cinema (we made an afternoon of it, though, and saw Lady Bird after this one, which was also good).

The musical number is definitely one of the most unexpected parts of the film, but I can't say I didn't like it. At first, I was thinking "What is going on here?" but I thought it was fun. I thought it was a creative and unexpected way to show Elisa's fantasy and what she's thinking at that moment, but at the same time it does connect to her life since she watches old musicals on TV with Giles and they do their little toe-tapping routine together. And in the musical number scene, she wants to be able to sing her feelings, but she can't, she can only imagine it.
Apparently they needed to keep cooling Doug Jones down with fans during that scene because he would get hot in the creature suit.
I'm not going to lie, I kind of want to learn the choreography to that and dance it with someone from my swing dance group at school (the dance in the film is not a swing dance, but it is with a partner like swing). Not sure any of them would go for it, though.

It's true, we don't know what happens to Giles at the end (if that's who you mean by her "poor friend"), but he must have been alright if he was "around" after everything to give the narration at the beginning and end of the film. He seems to me the kind of person for whom life goes on no matter what, whatever that is, if you get what I mean.

**Posted by Russell** January 25, 2018 8:57 pm

Just wanted to say 'yes' to pretty much everything you said!
I was also a little 'wait, what?' at the dance scene, and my mom and I exchanged a curious/amused look at each other, even though it was sweet and I still understood it to be a neat way of showing her 'inner voice'. I thought it kind of stuck out a little at first, but all the reasons you mentioned for it working, I agree with.

And yes, it's safe to assume her friends are just fine, I just used that phrase for Giles due to his situation, and musing what happened afterwards. But everyone around her/involved with was moved by the situation with the creature... Zelda was moved to help, and stand up to her husband, and will keep on doing what she's doing. I said 'poor' Giles since he seemed a bit lost, but he too was inspired and moved by the whole thing, plus, we do seem to have gotten a bit of assurance with him getting some 'spark' back in the form of his art and youth thanks to the creature, and inspired by them/knowing Elisa is probably okay, as he so narrates.

**Posted by Yitzock** January 25, 2018 9:22 pm

Yup.
I don't know to what level you care about this kind of thing, but I was talking with a friend (who's in the makeup field) about how somehow this movie didn't get a makeup nomination for the Oscars. We found it appalling, since the creature is pretty much entirely makeup, only some CGI effects for the eyes blinking and such. There's no reason it shouldn't have been nominated, considering the great work done on the effects makeup, the amount of detail put into it.
We're both hoping that Darkest Hour wins, out of the three films that are nominated.

**Posted by tonnaree** January 25, 2018 10:43 pm

One of the most beautiful, touching fairy tales I've ever seen.

**Posted by Russell** January 26, 2018 12:28 am

What? It didn't, really?? Sheesh.... although making Oldman disappear into Churchill was impressive.
Aww, and hi tonnaree! Yes, yes it is a fairy tale, isn't it?
Giles even calls her a princess. My favorite quote ever, his thoughtful/gentle, heartfelt words at the end (shown, no less, with the pair floating in water, perfect ending shot) --

Giles: If I tell you about her, what would I say? That she'll live happily ever after? I believe she will. That she is in love? That she'll remain in love? I'm sure that's true. But when I think of her, the only thing that comes to mind is a poem, whispered by someone in love, hundreds of years ago- 'unable to perceive the shape of you, I find you all around me, your presence fills my eyes with your love. It humbles my heart, for you are everywhere.'

**Posted by Yitzock** January 26, 2018 2:43 pm

Yes, it's kind of an adult fairytale. But unlike, say, The Beauty and the Beast, the creature doesn't transform into something else at the end. Being a non-human creature isn't ugly or bad. I think that it's more powerful than love allowing you to transform back, from one thing considered "ugly" back into a "beautiful" human form.
The only transformation is Elisa, with her gills, a different kind of transformation than the beast.

And yes, the makeup to make Gary Oldman to look like Churchill was some of the most incredible (if not the most incredible) makeup work I've seen in a film that didn't have a science fiction or fantasy element.

When I heard that line at the end of the film, I thought of the water all around the two of them, not just the amphibian man himself. I guess because water can kind of represent love and their relationship in particular. It got be thinking about the title of the film itself, too. Water doesn't have just one shape, and neither does love.

Last edited by Yitzock (January 26, 2018 2:46 pm)

**Posted by Russell** January 26, 2018 8:46 pm

Yitzock wrote:
When I heard that line at the end of the film, I thought of the water all around the two of them, not just the amphibian man himself. I guess because water can kind of represent love and their relationship in particular. It got be thinking about the title of the film itself, too. Water doesn't have just one shape, and neither does love.

Exactly. Hence loving that quote, and thinking it was the perfect choice to have him saying that, timed with the last image on the screen being this huge beautiful slightly dark expanse of water surrounding the pair that were just saved by love.

**Posted by Yitzock** March 6, 2018 12:26 am

I was so excited when this film won Best Picture last night. I really wasn't sure who would win. My aunt had watched some of Get Out the night before (she was visiting us) and during the commercial break before the last award, she said she thought Get Out was going to be Best Picture. I still wasn't sure. When the last image from The Shape of Water faded out and the words "Best Picture" appeared at the end of the montage, I thought "maybe it will win." And then it did!
I made a long gasp, I was so happy, so excited.

**Posted by tonnaree** March 8, 2018 5:12 pm

There were several movies that I would've been happy to see win Best Picture but in the end I am glad Shape of Water took the prize. Science Fiction and Fantasy movies are traditionally ignored by the Oscars except in the technical categories. This was a big win for Geeks.

**Posted by Yitzock** March 8, 2018 10:13 pm

Perhaps, but I think in general it was just a win for creativity.

**Posted by Russell** May 11, 2018 1:22 am

Hey guys!!
Still just lurking here and there... enjoy seeing your posts and all you good old regulars, but hardly know what want to say back most the time, and just quickly check-in on websites between distractions. Namely work and other projects and actually checking into finally getting a cochlear implant!

But! I thought of you and wanted to share something beautiful, too! I didn't see any chatter on the last BAFTAs... maybe because while there was some great stuff in (and probably many personal favorites), nothing from anyone we were all "invested" in? But from this thread, I know some of you have a soft spot like me for the strange, differently beautiful, fairytale of Shape of Water, and... did you know that Cirque du Soleil got to open the evening with a performance, and then later also do a tribute to the movie? It's gorgeous... if you haven't come across it yet, check it out!

**Posted by Liberty** May 11, 2018 7:21 am

Lovely .

**Posted by tonnaree** May 11, 2018 6:17 pm

Oh wow! Thank you for posting that Russell!

**Posted by Yitzock** May 15, 2018 8:55 pm

I had forgotten about that! I did watch part of that before. I thought it was cool that it got that kind of tribute!
It gives it another Canadian connection, since Cirque started in Quebec (in Canada) and much of the film was shot in Hamilton and Toronto in Ontario, Canada.