BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 / John's evovlement throughout the show

**Posted by Elemental** February 23, 2017 12:45 pm

You both Liberty and SusiGo have a point. I even think it may have been better for John had Mary been what he thought at first instead of an adventurer. Maybe if she had been happy as a primary caregiver, John could have come back to sharing a lot of time with Sherlock and have Mary and the baby as well. But you are right, SusiGo: three is a crowd, and someone has to take care of the baby. And neither John nor Mary seem very enthusiastic about it, thus the sense of "something is missing".

Last edited by Elemental (February 23, 2017 12:47 pm)

**Posted by Vhanja** February 23, 2017 3:26 pm

It might have been better for John if Mary had been who he wanted her to be. But as you guys mention, I don't think that would have worked in the long run anyway. It would always be a difficult dynamic to manage, the three (four) of them.

**Posted by besleybean** February 23, 2017 4:43 pm

Sadly the point is moot, now.

**Posted by kgreen20** February 23, 2017 8:04 pm

It's still the three of them: two men and a baby. There is no way that that can work either.

**Posted by besleybean** February 23, 2017 8:07 pm

I would hope it could, but we might not see it, anyway.
I maintain that John still has his own house at the end of S 4, anyway.

**Posted by Elemental** February 24, 2017 8:32 am

kgreen20 wrote:
It's still the three of them: two men and a baby. There is no way that that can work either.

I could agree on that. But this time would be based more on my own opinion. According to what is shown on screen during the last scenes of TFP, it does work better. Of course we can only see literally seconds. But those are the seconds the writers decided to show us, to create a very specific feeling that, to me, is the feeling that they have arrived to a good place as adventure partners.

besleybean wrote:
I would hope it could, but we might not see it, anyway.
I maintain that John still has his own house at the end of S 4, anyway.

Yeah, as much as my Johnlock heart wants to picture them parentlocking like crazy in 221B, John staying at his house makes more sense.

**Posted by Liberty** February 24, 2017 8:38 am

The baby doesn't seem to be nearly as much of a problem as we anticipated. She's practically non-existent throughout TLD, despite John rushing off on Sherlock-related business at short notice. So there is that precedent if they were to continue - that Rosie would just be a background presence, who doesn't cause any practical problems!

**Posted by Vhanja** February 24, 2017 11:23 am

I absolutely love this little analysis of John (and Sherlock). It's like someone took my thoughts right out of my head and put them on paper (or on screen, to be more exact). I agree with every word.

http://nemoholmes.tumblr.com/post/157646988306/tldjohn-or-just-john

**Posted by Liberty** February 24, 2017 12:24 pm

I like a lot of it, but the writer doesn't speak for me when talking about why we forgive Sherlock for faking his death. I forgive him because he was trying to save the world in the best way he knew how. If he'd faked his death because he was angry and wanted to hurt John, then that would be much more difficult to forgive.

But I do think the end of TLD kind of resolves their relationship, and "forgives" John.

**Posted by kgreen20** May 27, 2025 11:17 pm

Vhanja wrote:
Oh, they are definitly equal. As I've said in other threads, they are both dysfunctional when it comes to emotions, but in slightly different ways. John struggles both with expressing his emotions, and it seems he also struggles with how to react when other people express theirs.

Nuanced discussion about both John's strengths and weaknesses is interesting, but I just want to say that I hope this thread won't turn into a John bashing thread.

Rest assured, I have no intention of bashing John!