BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 / Questions about TFP

**Posted by besleybean** January 20, 2017 6:45 pm

I think the show is gone.

**Posted by Liberty** January 20, 2017 6:57 pm

nakahara wrote:
Liberty wrote:
TInstead, he still needed the clue about the no one/Nemo clue (which Eurus really emphasises) to point him the right direction.
Nemo is in Latin and demands that you know that language...
Even if Sherlock could read as six-years old, would he know such Latin terms already?

He didn't have that clue at six years old. Eurus gave it to the adult Sherlock. That was my point - if it was just the case that little Sherlock couldn't solve it because he couldn't read, then adult Sherlock (who could read) would have solved it. But adult Sherlock still needed another clue.

**Posted by KeepersPrice** January 20, 2017 6:57 pm

Sorry, very late to the party here and too busy to have read this whole thread. Apologies if this has been discussed; but should we 'forgive' John for compromising his marriage vows by flirting with Euros posing as Elizabeth/bus stop lady. It seems Eurus is able to manipulate/ mind control people to do her bidding. Should we see John as just another victim like the Governor at Sherrinford and realize he could not help himself even if he had wanted to? Therefore guiltless?

**Posted by Liberty** January 20, 2017 6:59 pm

tonnaree wrote:
There is one thing no one has mentioned. Mark and Steven went all the way back to the beginning. To the day Sherlock and John met. How they came together and grew and changed each other into the team they would become. I don't believe anyone has ever done that before.

I mentioned it! (Just saying, because Moftiss always seem to be going on about things that they say nobody has noticed, when in fact, people have noticed. And by "always", I probably mean twice!). But yes, they've mentioned before that people don't tend to do the meeting, but start with an them as an established couple.

**Posted by Liberty** January 20, 2017 7:01 pm

KeepersPrice wrote:
Sorry, very late to the party here and too busy to have read this whole thread. Apologies if this has been discussed; but should we 'forgive' John for compromising his marriage vows by flirting with Euros posing as Elizabeth/bus stop lady. It seems Eurus is able to manipulate/ mind control people to do her bidding. Should we see John as just another victim like the Governor at Sherrinford and realize he could not help himself even if he had wanted to? Therefore guiltless?

I would say no, because I don't think she really mind controlled him. She just acted and looked a way that was appealing to him. However, I've never thought he needed to feel terribly guilty about it. If he'd actually had an affair, that would be different.

**Posted by tonnaree** January 20, 2017 7:46 pm

Liberty wrote:
tonnaree wrote:
There is one thing no one has mentioned. Mark and Steven went all the way back to the beginning. To the day Sherlock and John met. How they came together and grew and changed each other into the team they would become. I don't believe anyone has ever done that before.
I mentioned it! (Just saying, because Moftiss always seem to be going on about things that they say nobody has noticed, when in fact, people have noticed. And by "always", I probably mean twice!). But yes, they've mentioned before that people don't tend to do the meeting, but start with an them as an established couple.

Sorry Lib! Brain cramp.

**Posted by besleybean** January 20, 2017 7:47 pm

Needless to say I sighed, deeply!

**Posted by Liberty** January 20, 2017 7:59 pm

No problem, Tonnaree! I just thought it was funny how much your "There is one thing no one has mentioned! sounded like Moftiss! The clue that everybody missed!

**Posted by Liberty** January 20, 2017 8:01 pm

nakahara wrote:
When Eurus and Sherlock meet during TLD, he feels drawn to her, they eat chips together, chat nicely, she even says he is kind....

.... so why does she jumps at him, knocking him to the ground and screams like a banshee in TFP? She could contain herself successfully before and now she is incapable to?

I think that in both cases, she's acting a part.

Although, it's kind of sad - as "Faith" she does actually get loads of attention from Sherlock, but only because of her disguise, which I'm sure she realises.

**Posted by Naavy** January 21, 2017 8:31 am

Liberty wrote:
Although, it's kind of sad - as "Faith" she does actually get loads of attention from Sherlock, but only because of her disguise, which I'm sure she realises.

But which one of her faces was the real one, and not acted?

Liberty wrote:
nakahara wrote:
Liberty wrote:
TInstead, he still needed the clue about the no one/Nemo clue (which Eurus really emphasises) to point him the right direction.
Nemo is in Latin and demands that you know that language...
Even if Sherlock could read as six-years old, would he know such Latin terms already?

He didn't have that clue at six years old. Eurus gave it to the adult Sherlock. That was my point - if it was just the case that little Sherlock couldn't solve it because he couldn't read, then adult Sherlock (who could read) would have solved it. But adult Sherlock still needed another clue.

Sherlock, and other Holmes children, could know "Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea" (after all, it is the classic story) as film, TV series, or even the book - though most likely book read by an adult person. Captain Nemo explains some moment, what his name means. But, I believe, Sherlock-as-a-child did not need such help - he knew the false gravestones very good. He simply thought too much like the normal kid, which means - not like his sister did.
But the adults (including the brilliant mother) did not understood Eurus'es song too. No one expected little child to create this sort of code.

BTW, I found in the Tumbir the rumor, that there are four episodes of season 4, and the fourth is supposed to fix or explain everything, what was wrong or strange in the first three. I do not believe it, but the idea could be treated as an interesting suggestion for Mofftiss... ;]

**Posted by besleybean** January 21, 2017 8:44 am

I am sorry.
I again personally see this as just some people not being able to deal with what we have been given.
I love what we have been given.
It would be greedy to crave for more.

**Posted by Naavy** January 21, 2017 9:02 am

Well, the 4th season was strange. And all this talking, that "who loved TAB, will love all 4th season too" - in the end TAB Sherlock wakes up. Maybe part of audience expected him to wake up, literally, in the end of TFP too?

**Posted by besleybean** January 21, 2017 9:03 am

Well I understand that.
But the clue in TAB was the Victorian setting.

**Posted by Naavy** January 21, 2017 9:06 am

Exactly!

But Sherlock didn't wake up, so - "there must be an another episode, to let him do it" - simple reasoning ;]

Last edited by Naavy (January 21, 2017 9:07 am)

**Posted by Naavy** January 21, 2017 9:27 am

Vhanja wrote:
You guys should read "Nature and nurture".

Could I get more details about this fic? An author, or at least a website?

**Posted by ewige** January 21, 2017 12:09 pm

Naavy wrote:
Vhanja wrote:
You guys should read "Nature and nurture".
Could I get more details about this fic? An author, or at least a website?

There you go:
http://archiveofourown.org/works/729134/chapters/1354275

**Posted by Liberty** January 21, 2017 12:12 pm

Naavy wrote:
Liberty wrote:
Although, it's kind of sad - as "Faith" she does actually get loads of attention from Sherlock, but only because of her disguise, which I'm sure she realises.
But which one of her faces was the real one, and not acted?

Do you mean between "Faith" and the screaming banshee? Or all her disguises? Of the first two, both were acted. She's obviously in disguise as Faith, but also when she attacks Sherlock she's showing him a way in which she can get out (by acting that part).

I imagine that all of her personas might have a little bit of her in them. Certainly the little girl on the plane very explicitly is drawn from Eurus herself. So maybe we can see a bit of Eurus through her disguises. But the real moments when she is just herself are only occasional. When Sherlock finds her in her room and when he plays violin with her spring to mind. Most of the rest of the time she seems to be "acting" to manipulate people, even if she's not physically in disguise.

**Posted by besleybean** January 21, 2017 12:17 pm

Yes a great part of her personality was manipulation.

**Posted by Naavy** January 21, 2017 1:02 pm

ewige wrote:
Naavy wrote:
Vhanja wrote:
You guys should read "Nature and nurture".
Could I get more details about this fic? An author, or at least a website?
There you go:
http://archiveofourown.org/works/729134/chapters/1354275

Thank you! There are too many stories with this title, I did not know, which one was the right "N&N"....

Liberty wrote:
I imagine that all of her personas might have a little bit of her in them. Certainly the little girl on the plane very explicitly is drawn from Eurus herself. So maybe we can see a bit of Eurus through her disguises. But the real moments when she is just herself are only occasional. When Sherlock finds her in her room and when he plays violin with her spring to mind. Most of the rest of the time she seems to be "acting" to manipulate people, even if she's not physically in disguise.

besleybean wrote:
Yes a great part of her personality was manipulation.

But she was much more, then the lost child, or the musician. Or even talented puppet master... But if she hardly was herself, how could anybody like for her real personality?

**Posted by Liberty** January 21, 2017 1:50 pm

I don't think anybody did really like her for herself. She had to rely on family who would love her because she was family.