BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 / Questions about TFP

**Posted by Schmiezi** January 17, 2017 8:28 pm

Not sure if this has been discussed somewhere else:

Was Sherlock really about to shoot himself or has he deduced that Eurus would not allow that?

And has Eurus known beforehand that Sherlock would rather kill himself than killing John or Mycroft?

**Posted by besleybean** January 17, 2017 8:30 pm

My view is: yes Sherlock definitely would have gone through with it, to save the other two and no, I think Euros was taken by surprise.

**Posted by Mothonthemantel** January 17, 2017 8:37 pm

Why did she have the tranq darts set up around the room if she didn't totally expect it? ( Sherlock shooting himself )

As for MP , who's MP were we in when we saw the kids playing and the three men outside the burnt house.
Or was that just camera narrative .

**Posted by besleybean** January 17, 2017 8:39 pm

Well that's Mycroft's memories, which I see as different to MP.

**Posted by Punch me in the face** January 17, 2017 8:40 pm

Just small questions:

I may sound dumb, but I'd rather ask than stay ignorant, I didn't understand whether Eurus was one year older or younger than Sherlock? (I know John said something about how being a middle child explained a lot, but I don't know if he was talking about Eurus or Sherlock?) The little girl in the memories looked older than Sherlock but I'm not sure...

I've only watched the episode once (I have pre ordered the dvd and will watch them all again once I have received it --i think it's supposed to be shipped on the 23rd but I'm not sure) and maybe I've missed something (English is not my mother tongue and I watched without subtitles). I guess John has recognised "Elizabeth" disguised as a therapist at the end of TLD but has anything been said about him being actually attracted to Sherlock's sister? (i don't remember him saying he was shocked or something)

Thanks!

**Posted by besleybean** January 17, 2017 8:41 pm

Euros is one year younger than Sherlock.
Well, she didn't present to him as herself(Sherlock's sister) when he fancied her and as she was playing a role, he didn't really know her.

**Posted by Schmiezi** January 17, 2017 8:43 pm

I am sure Eurus is one year younger that Sherlock but you are right, she looks older. But then, girls often do at that age.

A little question: they kept saying Moriarty visited Eurus five years ago. What happened on the show five years ago? Was it even before the pool scene? Some when during ASIB?

I am really lousy with understanding the time frame of the show.

**Posted by Lis** January 17, 2017 8:45 pm

Schmiezi wrote:
Not sure if this has been discussed somewhere else:

Was Sherlock really about to shoot himself or has he deduced that Eurus would not allow that?

And has Eurus known beforehand that Sherlock would rather kill himself than killing John or Mycroft?

I'm not sure about this, I'm leaning towards Sherlock realising that Eurus wouldn't let him kill himself as she still wanted to play with him. Mainly due to his earlier views on suicide and how taking your own life only takes it from everyone else and that by dying he would not be able to save the girl on the plane and also the fact that he had seen what the Governor's sacrifice had achieved, which was nothing, as Eurus killed his wife anyway and she could very well just kill John and Mycroft meaning his death would not necessarily spare theirs.

I think Eurus might have been surprised by Sherlock's actions but maybe the tranquillisers were in each room just in case she needed to intervene at any time...always be prepared and all that.

**Posted by besleybean** January 17, 2017 8:45 pm

@ Schmiezi Was it just before TRF?

Last edited by besleybean (January 17, 2017 8:46 pm)

**Posted by Punch me in the face** January 17, 2017 8:48 pm

Thanks BB. EDIT : and thanks Schmiezi too! (i hadn't seen your post when I posted mine)

For some reason, I would have liked it more if Sherlock had been the youngest child, but that's a detail

Maybe my second question was not very clear sorry. Did John realised when she revealed herself as Sherlock's sis at the end of TLD (when she takes her contact lenses off etc) that she was the "woman at the bus stop" and so, the woman with whom he exchanged texts? And if so, has there been anything said about that? About him being attracted to Sherlock's sister? (because that's really interesting i think, and it would have been interesting to see how Sherlock would have reacted to that). Or does he not even know that Eurus was "Elizabeth"??

Last edited by Punch me in the face (January 17, 2017 8:50 pm)

**Posted by NoSheetSherlock** January 17, 2017 8:52 pm

Schmiezi wrote:
A little question: they kept saying Moriarty visited Eurus five years ago. What happened on the show five years ago? Was it even before the pool scene? Some when during ASIB?

I am really lousy with understanding the time frame of the show.

Didn't Mycroft have him all during the Hounds of Baskerville timeframe "we interrogated him for weeks".. ?

**Posted by besleybean** January 17, 2017 8:55 pm

Yeah he was incarcerated...but by the time of meeting Euros, he was free wasn't he?

**Posted by NoSheetSherlock** January 17, 2017 8:58 pm

Ahhh yes. So could be sometime after the TRF episode's trial acquittal

**Posted by Mothonthemantel** January 17, 2017 8:58 pm

besleybean wrote:
Well that's Mycroft's memories, which I see as different to MP.

Actually I think it must of been MP because the boy was a dog and then changed and at the house John was there in present time . So Sherlock MP?

**Posted by This Is The Phantom Lady** January 17, 2017 9:01 pm

Punch me in the face wrote:
Thanks BB. EDIT : and thanks Schmiezi too! (i hadn't seen your post when I posted mine)

For some reason, I would have liked it more if Sherlock had been the youngest child, but that's a detail

Maybe my second question was not very clear sorry. Did John realised when she revealed herself as Sherlock's sis at the end of TLD (when she takes her contact lenses off etc) that she was the "woman at the bus stop" and so, the woman with whom he exchanged texts? And if so, has there been anything said about that? About him being attracted to Sherlock's sister? (because that's really interesting i think, and it would have been interesting to see how Sherlock would have reacted to that). Or does he not even know that Eurus was "Elizabeth"??

She shows him the flower in her hair and says something along the lines of "hiding behind a sexy smile" I think John understood that it was her.

**Posted by besleybean** January 17, 2017 9:02 pm

Well it's Euros speaking to Sherlock when Redbeard turns in to Victor, isn't it?
So she's correcting Sherlock's false memory...which okay, I suppose could be seen as Sherlock's earliest Mind Palace.

**Posted by Punch me in the face** January 17, 2017 9:05 pm

besleybean wrote:
Yeah he was incarcerated...but by the time of meeting Euros, he was free wasn't he?

Indeed. Moriarty asks "Am I under arrest again?" and Mycroft says "You remain a person of interest, but until you commit a verifiable crime, you are, I regret, at liberty."

(btw, have I a dirty mind and do I misunderstand Moriarty's "How do you want me?" when Mycroft says he's a Christmas present?? )

**Posted by This Is The Phantom Lady** January 17, 2017 9:06 pm

Remember, a mind palace is a memory technique...

But I do see it as two different things... A mind map (or palace in Sherlock's case) is a thing you are in control of... memories comes uncontrolled and can be triggered... and can be false or altered. But that's just me

**Posted by besleybean** January 17, 2017 9:07 pm

@Punch me THAT is what I referred to as my new favourite line, on the first impressions thread.
I thought something very rude about it, which I couldn't possibly type on this forum!

@Phantom: brilliant description.

Last edited by besleybean (January 17, 2017 9:08 pm)

**Posted by TheOtherOne** January 17, 2017 9:29 pm

NoSheetSherlock wrote:
Schmiezi wrote:
A little question: they kept saying Moriarty visited Eurus five years ago. What happened on the show five years ago? Was it even before the pool scene? Some when during ASIB?

I am really lousy with understanding the time frame of the show.

Didn't Mycroft have him all during the Hounds of Baskerville timeframe "we interrogated him for weeks".. ?

ASiB seems more likely.

Sherlock killed Magnussen on Christmas Day 2014. The events of season 4, with Mary giving birth etc. must follow straight on from S3 story line, which means the show is currently in 2015. "Christmas 5 years ago" would have been 2010. That was the night of the Christmas party in 221B when Sherlock discovered Irene's phone on the mantlepiece (and her fake death).