NoShipSherlock wrote:

I don't think this is a repeated pattern of abuse, I think it was a one time event and as I stated above, used as a plot device to break both men so they could reconcile.   

I wonder about that. Because I think there were signs in the show that John´s prevalence for violence is a bit not good - in numerous episodes.

Here are some examples of John´s physical and verbal attacks on other people. The first attact was directly provoked by Sherlock, but what about all the other stuff?


















Are those really just isolated incidents? Or is it something evolving here?
And is it only a coincidence that Sherlock sees John as aggressive towards him in his own head in TAB?
 

I don't think anything is evolving. I agree with Liberty, I think it's meant to be seen as an accaptable failing. I don't think we are meant to be looking at these things too seriously, neither John's violence nor Sherlock's manipulation. It's upped for tv.

Nakahara, your list shows many correct incidents of John being angry and violent, but I don't know hat I would classify them as abusive.  He definitely as anger issues and tends to handle emotions by shouting or getting physical.  John needs some anger management classes for sure!
I think it goes back to the head vs. heart portrayal.  John tends to be quick to fly off the handle and to be more physical.  Sherlock tends to be more calculated and less likely to resort to physical violence unless absolutely necessary.  Both men have killed someone.
These are flawed heros both, but I think that is what makes them interesting characters. 
These parts are so beautifully acted as well, making some situations all the more heartbreaking to watch.
I wonder if the show 's creators analyze things this much? 

Last edited by NoShipSherlock (January 10, 2017 1:20 pm)

I'm one of the few who thinks that the drama queen comment was actually spot on, and helpful.

Vhanja wrote:

I'm watching the "Behind the scenes" for this episode, where Martin and Ben talk about this scene. 
 

Where can I find this video you mentioned? It's not one of the clips on the BBC homepage, as far as I could tell, or is it? Sounds very interesting.
 

Vhanja wrote:

I found it here:

http://anything-sherlock.com/post/155663071382/the-lying-detective-behind-the-scenes-video

Thank you! I'm going to watch it as soon as possible
 

Well written, but I think it's falling into the same trap when comparing Sherlock and John.  There was absolutely no vindictiveness, no desire to hurt, in Sherlock either drugging John, or faking suicide (or even, it's not violence, but it's sometimes brought up in this context, lying about the bomb).   He does those things for the greater good.   I just can't understand why people see that as the same as beating somebody up in anger, to deliberately cause them pain and injury for no benefit apart from getting it out of your system.   The closest comparism is Sherlock torturing the CIA agent, which is definitely not OK (but kind of OK in that world). 

(But also, somebody having done something wrong, doesn't make them deserving of violence.  Even Sherlock's "self-loathing", even if he believes he deserved it, he doesn't.  John does admit in the end that it wasn't Sherlock's fault that Mary died.  And I know the writer isn't arguing that Sherlock deserved it, but I thought I'd throw that in!)

I don't agree that we have difficulty accepting John being human.  I thought the texting was very human and very understandable.  It certainly wasn't done to deliberately hurt anyone. 

All I can say again is, I really hope this is the last we've seen of John;s violence...though there may not be much time left, anyway.

I do think that's it.  In relation to Sherlock, anyway.  I'm sure if, for instance, anyone threatened Rosie, he'd be dangerous. 

Liberty wrote:

There was absolutely no vindictiveness, no desire to hurt, in Sherlock either drugging John, or faking suicide (or even, it's not violence, but it's sometimes brought up in this context, lying about the bomb).   He does those things for the greater good.   I just can't understand why people see that as the same as beating somebody up in anger, to deliberately cause them pain and injury for no benefit apart from getting it out of your system. 
 

It is interesting how different people has different measure what is still acceptable for them or understable and what is too much.
For me the scene in the underground, Sherlock's lying about the bomb is much worse than beating up Sherlock. 
What did John do, it was in stress, full of emotions, unprepared. I do not believe that he really wanted to injure badly but might have. 
Sherlock with the bomb was cold calculation, to force John forgive him in the minute of death. It could have been dangerous, too, heart attack or something. It was not for greater good, just selfish wish, great manipulation,mental violence. I was really surprised that John did not punch him one last time and did not leave for good. I would do it being him. 

He was needed in next episodes so he resigned but this scene is still something hardly acceptable for me. 

 

Last edited by Preceja (January 10, 2017 9:47 pm)