BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 / TST Headscratchers

**Posted by nakahara** January 4, 2017 4:16 pm

Another headscratcher:

http://vitruvianwatson.tumblr.com/post/155319509290/and-the-only-reason-ajay-even-found-mary-was

**Posted by besleybean** January 4, 2017 5:09 pm

AJ only wanted to kill Mary, not her family.

**Posted by ewige** January 4, 2017 9:07 pm

I saw somewhere a theory that Norbury's gun looked like Mary's gun O.o
What do you think? I know nothing about guns and can't compare them at all in the swift half-dark shots

**Posted by Liberty** January 4, 2017 9:12 pm

nakahara wrote:
Another headscratcher:

http://vitruvianwatson.tumblr.com/post/155319509290/and-the-only-reason-ajay-even-found-mary-was

I don't think she was perfectly happy to shoot Sherlock! But anyway, I think that as long as she wasn't at home, Ajay would have no reason to go near her family. And if she was going to be slaughtered, it wouldn't be in front of them. I don't think she wanted to kill Ajay, and she maybe had some hope that if he caught up with her, she could work it out. She did seem incredulous that he would think she betrayed him.

**Posted by sherlocked** January 4, 2017 9:58 pm

I checked out this tumbl "vitruvianwatson". The creator is heavily invested in explicit Johnlock, and he wants Mary to be evil and gone. If John shot her in order to save the love of his life Sherlock - all the better. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with this wish - except that tv shows rarely conform to our private needs and desires. We set ourselves up for bitter disappointment if we go down this road. There are a few observations re: the shooting which are interesting. But I'm not sure if they really lead to the conclusion that John must've shot Mary and Sherlock is covering for him. While it's unlikely it's not impossible, but how it is presented in this tumbr it seems to be steeped in wishful thinking.

**Posted by Mothonthemantel** January 4, 2017 10:19 pm

Only lies have detail.

I think that would not explain Sherlock and John estrangement. The reason for that is the most curious to me.

**Posted by nakahara** January 4, 2017 10:27 pm

sherlocked wrote:
I checked out this tumbl "vitruvianwatson". The creator is heavily invested in explicit Johnlock, and he wants Mary to be evil and gone. If John shot her in order to save the love of his life Sherlock - all the better. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with this wish - except that tv shows rarely conform to our private needs and desires. We set ourselves up for bitter disappointment if we go down this road. There are a few observations re: the shooting which are interesting. But I'm not sure if they really lead to the conclusion that John must've shot Mary and Sherlock is covering for him. While it's unlikely it's not impossible, but how it is presented in this tumbr it seems to be steeped in wishful thinking.

Uhm, the above mentioned headscratcher makes the point that Mary seemed hesitant to kill AJ who was after her with the intent to massacre her (and actually slit the throat of an innocent bust-owner just few days earlier), but she didn´t hesitate to pull a trigger on Sherlock, who actually offered help to her.... which is an interesting point, IMHO.

Yes, the author of the observation may have opinions you don´t agree with, but this does not invalidate the actual observation, I believe.

**Posted by Liberty** January 4, 2017 10:43 pm

She wouldn't have been able to incapacitate AJ, because he would have killed her while she was doing it. And I think she did hesitate with Sherlock.

**Posted by sherlocked** January 4, 2017 10:46 pm

Q

nakahara wrote:
sherlocked wrote:
I checked out this tumbl "vitruvianwatson". The creator is heavily invested in explicit Johnlock, and he wants Mary to be evil and gone. If John shot her in order to save the love of his life Sherlock - all the better. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with this wish - except that tv shows rarely conform to our private needs and desires. We set ourselves up for bitter disappointment if we go down this road. There are a few observations re: the shooting which are interesting. But I'm not sure if they really lead to the conclusion that John must've shot Mary and Sherlock is covering for him. While it's unlikely it's not impossible, but how it is presented in this tumbr it seems to be steeped in wishful thinking.
Uhm, the above mentioned headscratcher makes the point that Mary seemed hesitant to kill AJ who was after her with the intent to massacre her (and actually slit the throat of an innocent bust-owner just few days earlier), but she didn´t hesitate to pull a trigger on Sherlock, who actually offered help to her.... which is an interesting point, IMHO.

Yes, the author of the observation may have opinions you don´t agree with, but this does not invalidate the actual observation, I believe.

I wasn't really responding to a specific point, and I wouldn't even say that I don't agree with the general opinions of the author. I was just cautioning that the content of the tumblr in general might be a bit colored by wishful thinking.
I should've been more clear about that. The point made about Ajay is indeed interesting.
I was reading a bit of the other content of the tumblr and was astonished about the vicious language sometimes used in connection with Mary.

Last edited by sherlocked (January 4, 2017 10:49 pm)

**Posted by Oakwood375** January 4, 2017 11:05 pm

Here's a new one: I just rewatched TST and after the aquarium scene, there's those blue flames. What I didn't catch the first go round was a box in the flames. Any ideas?

**Posted by nakahara** January 4, 2017 11:07 pm

Oakwood375 wrote:
Here's a new one: I just rewatched TST and after the aquarium scene, there's those blue flames. What I didn't catch the first go round was a box in the flames. Any ideas?

I believe that was Mary´s cremation and the box was her coffin.

**Posted by Lola Red** January 4, 2017 11:07 pm

I also interpreted it as Mary's coffin being burned/cremated, beautiful shot by the way

Last edited by Lola Red (January 4, 2017 11:08 pm)

**Posted by nakahara** January 4, 2017 11:25 pm

Here we have the said transition scene in pictures:

**Posted by Oakwood375** January 5, 2017 3:53 am

Aw, good point! I guess that's just one more reason to believe that Mary isn't coming back

**Posted by besleybean** January 5, 2017 6:39 am

I never thought she was.

**Posted by Vhanja** January 5, 2017 8:10 am

Oh, I never realised it was her cremation... that made me even more sad for the whole ordeal.

**Posted by Lola Red** January 5, 2017 8:17 am

Oh god please no, the last thing this show needs is another fake death...it is already starting to lose impact as the discussions here and elsewhere show. Now the focus is not so much on how Mary's death will impact the other characters, but rather on how she could have faked it. Bit not good, in my opinion. But given the shows track-record understandable

**Posted by sherlocked** January 5, 2017 9:11 am

Why would a cremation indicate that Mary can't have faked her death? If anything a cremation would hide this, since the substitute body is burned and can't be checked up upon anymore.
I certainly don't want another faked death. There are too many iffy deaths in the show already. So far we can't even be completely sure about Jim Moriarty. If anything, TAB gave us a nifty recipe of how to fake one's seemingly fatal shooting. Maybe, it never was about Moriarty but about Mary? The show has a history of faked deaths. And then there is Doyle's novel The Valley Of Fear. It features an American former agent on the run who retreats to England, marries and settles down. Then shadows from the past catch up with him and he fakes his own murder in order to mislead his pursuers. Unfortunately he decides to keep his wedding ring because he loves his English wife very much (all other rings are found on the substitute body). That was a mistake of course and Holmes reveals that Birdy Edwards is very much alive. The story of Birdy Edwards has many unsettling parallels with Mary's backstory.
Again, I wouldn't like this at all. Hopefully this death was final. Just wanted to point out: a cremation doesn't necessarily indicate that Mary's body was in the coffin. But it would certainly obscure forever if someone else's body was in the box.

Last edited by sherlocked (January 5, 2017 9:12 am)

**Posted by sherlocked** January 5, 2017 9:19 am

A cremation would also obliterate the body and make an exhumation pointless - if someone should decide to check and take a closer forensic look at how exactly Mary died. No matter how this will play out - maybe there's a reason that we have been shown the cremation scene. And the flames looked unsettlingly hellish

**Posted by Liberty** January 5, 2017 9:35 am

I think she's really dead. She may appear in later episodes in flashback or in mind palace.