BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 / Mary's death and final message

**Posted by Liberty** January 3, 2017 11:06 am

Well, there's an expression, to go to hell and back, meaning to go through something awful. So it could mean in that context - go to hell, to save John. Whereas eff off couldn't. Maybe if it was said playfully (in the sense of eff off and get on with it), but it's not.

I still think they must have chosen a deliberately ambiguous phrase. It would have been easy to write a less ambiguous one.

**Posted by besleybean** January 3, 2017 11:13 am

But they never go for the easy option!

**Posted by Liberty** January 3, 2017 11:16 am

True. And I think they sometimes never resolve the ambiguity. Maybe this will be one of those times.

**Posted by besleybean** January 3, 2017 11:23 am

Oh no, I think we will see exactly what Mary meant...

**Posted by ewige** January 3, 2017 12:16 pm

If I may add an aside about the Russian translation:
There is a different idiomatic translation of go to hell (go to the devil) which wasn't used here.
Instead, they picked a word by word translation (climb down to hell) which is understandable as somehow related to the idiom but really not the natural way to translate it.
So it's not eff off but rather do something terrible or painful and come back.

Last edited by ewige (January 3, 2017 12:19 pm)

**Posted by besleybean** January 3, 2017 12:23 pm

This is certainly how I am reading it.

**Posted by Liberty** January 3, 2017 1:01 pm

Well, that's completely different then. It seems to have the same double meaning as the English version.

**Posted by besleybean** January 3, 2017 1:07 pm

Exactly, which is what I think is intended.

**Posted by mrshouse** January 3, 2017 1:24 pm

Does anybody have ideas as to those stills of Mary that were said to be connected to TLD? One of it looking like she is standing in 221B's kitchen, one of them standing with some plush toy looking out of the window? This is for me a clear sign that we will not have seen the last of her. I just hope we will not get some Ghost" like appearance.
Plus the BBC tweet "Nothing is certain, nothing is written". She will still be around.

**Posted by ewige** January 3, 2017 1:30 pm

mrshouse wrote:
Does anybody have ideas as to those stills of Mary that were said to be connected to TLD? One of it looking like she is standing in 221B's kitchen, one of them standing with some plush toy looking out of the window? This is for me a clear sign that we will not have seen the last of her. I just hope we will not get some Ghost" like appearance.
Plus the BBC tweet "Nothing is certain, nothing is written". She will still be around.

These stills are placed in the TST section of the hi-res gallery. Maybe they are from the cut scenes or just for fun or something.

**Posted by besleybean** January 3, 2017 1:41 pm

I don't think we'll see Mary again alive, she may ' appear from the grave', as it were.

**Posted by ewige** January 3, 2017 1:48 pm

A lot about her still seems unresolved, eg the pool scene with the four snipers makes a different kind of sense now thar we know about AGRA, also John's blog in TST is wrong. So maybe they are just setting something up for Smith and Moriarty to truly free Mary from the ghosts of her past?

**Posted by nakahara** January 3, 2017 2:20 pm

mrshouse wrote:
Does anybody have ideas as to those stills of Mary that were said to be connected to TLD? One of it looking like she is standing in 221B's kitchen, one of them standing with some plush toy looking out of the window? This is for me a clear sign that we will not have seen the last of her. I just hope we will not get some Ghost" like appearance.
Plus the BBC tweet "Nothing is certain, nothing is written". She will still be around.

Or maybe her twin will appear?

**Posted by nakahara** January 3, 2017 3:32 pm

Interesting meta about physics in that Mary-shooting scene:

https://riteofashkente.tumblr.com/post/155310536376/the-physics-of-mary-jumping-in-front-of-sherlock

**Posted by Mothonthemantel** January 3, 2017 3:53 pm

Nakahara. Yes. This is amusing and very true. In order to catch a bullet one must move at the speed of the bullet.

**Posted by besleybean** January 3, 2017 4:10 pm

Wonder how physics are for Mark and Steven?!

**Posted by SusiGo** January 3, 2017 4:14 pm

Very interesting indeed. I think you do not have to be a physics nerd to know this. Or to do your research.

**Posted by Lola Red** January 3, 2017 4:19 pm

Yes, this is the reason why I do not like that trope. And the solution is so simple: Make the saviour anticipate the shot and suddenly the time is there, the shooter also needs time to react, by which point he/she has probably pulled the trigger. But no, they always go for the wrong order and I will never understand why *rant over*

**Posted by besleybean** January 3, 2017 4:22 pm

See I'm sorry but I really cannot worked up over stuff like this...I allow them a lot of artistic license, it's a TV drama show and not a documentary!

**Posted by Lola Red** January 3, 2017 4:29 pm

I know and I am usually also willing to give plenty of suspension of disbelief in return for good entertainment. This is just a pet peeve of mine, but nothing that actually has any real impact of my enjoyment of the scene. I just roll my eyes for a second before I start sobbing like a baby ;)