BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 / First impressons and discussions

**Posted by This Is The Phantom Lady** January 1, 2017 10:47 pm

The 'premonitions' did throw me a bit as well... to me it sort of reminded me of PTSD... that was my first thought. Triggers; you know?

Sorry I'm not coherent right now...

**Posted by Vhanja** January 1, 2017 10:48 pm

Well, we did get the proper apology from Mary to Sherlock. "We're sort of even now". I can live with that, I really can. It settles the matter for me.

**Posted by SolarSystem** January 1, 2017 10:48 pm

tobeornot221b wrote:
SusiGo wrote:
No tears here. It all felt very surreal to me. Will have to watch it again.

So just this: too much Mary. Not enough John. John is next to non-existent, no good scenes with Sherlock, no warmth between them. If I had to cry, then about this.
My thoughts exactly.
Not even warmth between John and the baby. I didn't even understand his attraction to the flower power girl. This John was a strange one to me.

I totally agree. Where was all that coming from? I don't understand John in this episode at all. And someone already mentioned it, he is a soldier, he has seen life and death - and we're meant to believe that he would really truly believe in Sherlock's vow? John must know that Sherlock can't always be there to protect them. Of course he is heartbroken about Mary's death, I totally get that, but there is no believable drama in there for me when it comes to his reaction towards Sherlock.

Apart from that: Yes, not enough John, too much Mary, 221B felt totally alien to me... at this point I have completely lost touch with the show.

**Posted by Lis** January 1, 2017 10:48 pm

My mind is racing!

Just jumping straight to the death of Mary. I'm not sure what to think. I understand John's grief, and I did tear up at his reaction to her dying, but I don't want him to hate Sherlock.

The go to hell at the end of Mary's video message has thrown me a little, it does sound menacing but all her other actions in the episode point to her being redeemed and not the villain and I don't really want the is she/is she not a villain issue to still be part of the story.

I need to watch the episode again.

**Posted by This Is The Phantom Lady** January 1, 2017 10:48 pm

Yeah Mary saw her error, didn't she...

**Posted by Liberty** January 1, 2017 10:49 pm

Punch me in the face wrote:
Also, it confuses me that Sherlock didn't anticipate Vivian Norbury's actions. When I saw her, I immediately thought "she must have a gun hidden in her bag". It buggers me that Sherlock was fooled so easily.

Yes, and it also puzzled me that she wasn't suspected and Lady Smallwood was - I suppose because she was "only" the secretary, but still. She fitted the "English woman" description just as well.

**Posted by This Is The Phantom Lady** January 1, 2017 10:50 pm

Also wtf about the new skull painting??

**Posted by Sherlock Holmes** January 1, 2017 10:50 pm

Vhanja wrote:
The episode just feel a bit odd to me. What happened to the team Sherlock and John? They were non-existent here.

That was never going to happen with Mary in the picture. Now that she's sadly departed, things will, eventually, start to get back to normal with J & S

**Posted by Vhanja** January 1, 2017 10:51 pm

SolarSystem wrote:
I don't understand John in this episode at all. And someone already mentioned it, he is a soldier, he has seen life and death - and we're meant to believe that he would really truly believe in Sherlock's vow? John must know that Sherlock can't always be there to protect them. Of course he is heartbroken about Mary's death, I totally get that, but there is no believable drama in there for me when it comes to his reaction towards Sherlock.

I have to agree with this. I would've thought there would be a MUCH bigger involvement from Sherlock to warrant such a reaction from John. A vow? Seriously? John of all people should know that life (and death) doesn't work like that.

I believe in a reconciliation. And for the first time, this time John ows Sherlock a HUGE apology.

Last edited by Vhanja (January 1, 2017 10:52 pm)

**Posted by This Is The Phantom Lady** January 1, 2017 10:51 pm

Sherlock Holmes wrote:
Vhanja wrote:
The episode just feel a bit odd to me. What happened to the team Sherlock and John? They were non-existent here.
That was never going to happen with Mary in the picture. Now that she's sadly departed, things will, eventually, start to get back to normal with J & S

I hope so. And hopefully soon. Cause the 'current' situation hurts

**Posted by Sherlock Holmes** January 1, 2017 10:52 pm

This Is The Phantom Lady wrote:
Also wtf about the new skull painting??

It was GLOWING!!

**Posted by Vhanja** January 1, 2017 10:53 pm

This Is The Phantom Lady wrote:
Also wtf about the new skull painting??

Yes! I noticed that one too - it was glowing!

**Posted by ewige** January 1, 2017 10:54 pm

There are several parallels with TAB. Lady Carmichael was very distraught that Sherlock didn't manage to save her husband even tho he'd promised.

**Posted by Vhanja** January 1, 2017 10:54 pm

Also, at the end, did you see that the ballooon John was still there..

**Posted by SusiGo** January 1, 2017 10:55 pm

Sherlock Holmes wrote:
Vhanja wrote:
The episode just feel a bit odd to me. What happened to the team Sherlock and John? They were non-existent here.
That was never going to happen with Mary in the picture. Now that she's sadly departed, things will, eventually, start to get back to normal with J & S

I very much hope so.

**Posted by Liberty** January 1, 2017 10:56 pm

tonnaree wrote:
Swanpride wrote:
Bus stop lady is easily the worst addition they ever did to the show, because of the way they portrayed her as "targeting" John...it takes too much responsibility away from him, as if he wasn't a guy who was getting around beforehand.

Plus, what kind of woman flirts with a guy who wears a wedding ring?
People, men and women, flirt with married people all the time. Some people honestly don't care. I knew a woman years ago who only "dated" married men! She said she liked the challenge. I don't approve and I don't excuse, I'm just saying it's not an usual thing to happen.

People have open marriages too, and people wear wedding rings without being married (or being widows/widowers, ironically, given the episode ending).

But still, I think the girl was quite blatantly targetting him - I don't mean that to be judgmental at all, just that it seems possibly sinister. We all wondered if he'd been targeted by Mary in that way. I mean that bus stop lady might be working for somebody.

I don't think John did anything terribly wrong, fidelity wise, either. I thought it would be more than that (as I did wonder if he was going to have an affair), but it was a few texts in the end. He was tempted, but didn't quite succumb.

**Posted by Vhanja** January 1, 2017 10:56 pm

Here is a comment from Moftiss about the Mary death:

http://sherlocksbestfriend-john.tumblr.com/post/155266747871/sherlock-creator-steven-moffat-we-did-tell

**Posted by This Is The Phantom Lady** January 1, 2017 10:56 pm

Vhanja wrote:
Also, at the end, did you see that the ballooon John was still there..

And hanging down all sad...

Gosh.

There was a lot of TAB about the episode I felt too. How high was he throughout??

**Posted by laipoldluk** January 1, 2017 10:56 pm

I just saw the episode and I dont know what to say. First of all, there was too much mary and not enough sherlock and john. Also, her traveling scene was completely useless. Mary`s messages in the end was interesting, though. Moriarti told sherlock that they would meet in hell. Maybe that`s why she said that? Also, newbury quoted moriarti at some point (cant remember the quote, unfortunately).
EDIT: I also believe that we will see the girl from the bus stop again. She was targeting john even though he had a wedding ring.
Greetings from Austria!

Last edited by laipoldluk (January 1, 2017 11:01 pm)

**Posted by Vhanja** January 1, 2017 10:58 pm

I do agree, the entire travelling part was unneccessary. It was only there to show that Mary wasn't any more clever than Sherlock at the end.

Also, it surprised me that Sherlock was actually present in the intimate scene between John and Mary while still there.